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Swift Memorial Institute: Oral Histories & Interview Transcriptions
Table of Contents
Name
Betty Waterson Fugate
Page
1
Bobby Lovett
2
Carolyn Trammel-Cox
16
Catherine Snapp-Howard
19
Charles W. Hargrave
20
Dessa Edyth Parkey Blair
22
Etta Snapp-Fanny
29
Imogene Trammel-Fugate
30
Josephine SnappFrancisco-Willis
32
Lester Lamon
33
Lois Goins
43
Lollie Mae McKinney-Surratt 44
Margaret Clark-Delaney
49
Norma Jean Cope-Bowers
50
Pat Snapp-Charles
51
Robert J Booker
52
Ruth Sharp-Ben
54
Sandy Durham
55
Stella Gudger
58
Wayne Fain
67
William Bogart
68
William Dennis
72
�1
Betty Watterson-Fugate
Rogersville, Tennessee
2012
My name is Betty Fugate. I was Betty Watterson at Swift. I went to Swift High School from 1950-1954.
For our May Day activities, yes, we had great times. There were a lot of people from other states ….
friends would come. After leaving Swift, …. visit and keep in touch like that. May Day activities were
always special because of the activities we had and the queen and king. …… James Branner .. at the
time, . . . and it was nice. Really nice.
It was a great beginning. Being in a college of faith, we started with that – we grew up in the church of
course, but it carried on. We studied our Christian studies, and we started there. And we had – we really
enjoyed Swift because of that. It was a beginning.
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Bobby Lovett
Nashville, Tennessee
2014
My name is Bobby l love it PhD professor of history (retired) Tennessee State University.
Before the Civil War, Black educational opportunities for Negroes were almost non-existent.
Free Negroes in Nashville did operate some classes and schools clandestinely, between 1833
and 1857, until they were shut down by vigilantes and January of 1857, because of recent race
riots in the city of Nashville. Ninety percent of the slaves therefore were illiterate. Perhaps ten
percent of them could read and write a little bit. Where masters often had to teach them some
degree of literacy in those skilled trades, because about 10 percent of the slaves were urban
and they ran errands for their masters. They worked in their shops in their offices and so on. So
about 10 percent of the slaves, we estimate could read and write a little bit, but illiteracy was not
unusual in Tennessee in antebellum times. More than half of the people in the state couldn't
read and write, therefore it was forbidden for slaves to learn to read and write in their day and
time.
However, at least two institutions in the state of Tennessee, in higher education, included some
Black students. Maryville college as early as the 1830s and Franklin College outside of
Nashville by 1855 to 1860, allowed a few free Negroes to attend classes here. It was mostly a
manual labor College, however so it was not a liberal arts based college like Maryville and it
was also religious instruction, just like Mayville College had mostly religious instruction. So there
was very little elementary secondary high high school or college education available to African
Americans before the Civil War. However African Americans comprised 26% of Tennesseans by
1860 and so, for one-fourth of the population education was almost forbidden to them until the
Civil War.
The coming of the Civil War really was the opening chapter of Black education in Tennessee.
As soon as the Union occupation began in Nashville in 1862, free Negroes reopened those
schools that had been closed in 1857. Small classes, thirty, forty, fifty students. And one of the
teachers of the first of those schools to be opened was a man by the name of Daniel Wadkins.
Wadkins had been one of those teachers that ran the antebellum, free Negro classes
clandestinely back in the 1850s. And when the Union came to town, the Union Army, they were
able to restart some of those particular classes. They were private. You had to pay a few cents
to go to those particular schools. But in 1863/64 northern missionaries began to come down into
the occupied parts of the south and the first things they did were to establish schools for these
freedmen who were now living in camps, contraband camps. For example, over in East
Nashville which was called Edgefield out in South Nashville called Edgehill contraband camp
and a big contraband camp out in the western section of Nashville, where incidentally this free
school began in 1865 in that contraband camp. And so by 1864 65 with the establishment of
contraband camps across Tennessee, northern missionaries are now coming with clothing.
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They're coming with food and medicine. They're coming, of course, with Bibles, but they're also
coming with books to teach the slaves, adult and children, how to do the alphabets, how to read
and write. And so the period between 1862 to 1865 during the Civil War is the beginning of the
spread of Education to all Black Tennesseans, at that time.
A contraband camp was a place that consisted of tents and log cabins, temporary structures,
where slaves who had ran away from the farms and the plantations into the Union camps were
housed. Because by 1862 so many slaves were escaping the plantations and the farms in the
center of the battlefields Virginia and Tennessee especially. That the Union had to pass a act
called the Confiscation Act in 1861, that justified the Union Army keeping those runaway slaves
instead of returning them to their owners, as the 1850 Fugitive Slave Law provided. The Union
is now saying these are weapons of war. Anything that is contraband, like today the war on
drugs, they can confiscate the drugs. They can confiscate the cars bought with the drugs. They
can confiscate the houses, today, and in the Civil War they could confiscate anything that was
used to make war against the United States. And so they declare fugitive slaves contraband if
their masters were in rebellion against the United States. So they asked the runaway slaves, “Is
your master fighting against us?” and the slave of course said, “Yes he's fighting against you
and he's in the Confederate Army.” and that was all that was needed for them to stay within the
Union camp. And so many thousands came, that in August 1862 in Grand Junction, Tennessee
the general in charge, Ulysses S Grant, asked one of the chaplains to begin to establish a place
to keep these people. Because winter was coming, fall was coming, winter was coming. They
had no clothing on. They had no shoes. They had no houses to live in. They had no food. These
were women and children and babies and Men, as well. And so they started the contraband
camps in the fall of 1862. They spread out across Tennessee. They spread out across the
Mississippi Valley. Anywhere that the Union Army was in occupation, they had to establish
these camps in order to house all these runaway people.
The Civil War, as far as African Americans are concerned, closed with the ratification of the
Thirteenth Amendment, December 18th, 1865. Which prohibits slavery now throughout the
United States. African Americans are free everywhere in the United States as of December 18th
1865 at the same time, in Tennessee, that 26 percent of Blacks out of all Tennesseans. Blacks,
they have been freed by the state of Tennessee. On February 22nd, 1865 the Tennessee
Constitutional Convention recommends that slavery be abolished in Tennessee. Secondly that
Constitutional Convention recommends the repeal of the 1835 constitutions section that
protected slavery and thirdly it recommended that the Ordinance of Secession which had been
passed by the Tennessee General Assembly in June, 1861 be repealed. On March 5th, 1865
the people went to the polls and they voted. All men at that time, they vote on those proposed
changes and they approve all of them and consequently on the 5th of March, slavery is officially
ended in the state of Tennessee. On April 5th, a month later they inaugurate the first civilian
governor since 1861 and that is the man from East Tennessee, Parson Warren G Brownlow
becomes governor and they and the legislature of Tennessee, the General Assembly, they
approve on that day the ratification by Tennessee of the 13th amendment to the Constitution.
Which will eradicate slavery throughout the country. Tennessee is one of the first states to ratify
�4
that amendment. You're going to need 23 states to ratify it in 1865. And that number of states
ratified the amendment on December 18th, 1865. Eventually all the other 33 states ratified
except three or four. Kentucky didn't ratify until 1891. Kentucky was a tough state whole nother
story as far as slavery and civil war secession was concerned. A whole another complex story
but they do eventually ratified. Tennessee is one of the first. The last state to ratify was the state
of Mississippi. And the state of Mississippi did not ratify the amendment that freed the slaves
until January 2013, just recently. That Mississippi finally ratified the 13th amendment to the
Constitution. It has been a national story. You know, because everybody thought that everybody
agreed that slavery was over in the United States. There's one state that did not agree and that
state finally with the help of the Black legislative caucus in Mississippi passed the ratification in
1996 but until 2013, it was not sent to Congress. You have to send the amendment to the two
houses. You send the amendment to the Secretary of State and you send the amendment to
the US register who records it and so on. And Mississippi said the secretary of state of
Mississippi overlooked that in 1996 and somebody reminded them, a college professor at
Southern Mississippi University that it was not in the US register. And then they looked and
found sure enough the man didn't send it in and as a result, technically Mississippi did not ratify
until January 2013.
Well Jim Crow laws, as one historian C Vann Woodard points out, had their origins at
Antebellum times. There were no specific laws before the Civil War that said Blacks could not
go eat here or they couldn't stay in this hotel, a lunchroom. But there were what we call Black
Codes before the Civil War, for example, in Nashville. German immigrants had the City Council
to pass a city code that said free Negroes and slaves could not engage in the butchering
business that was dominated by German immigrants. Nashville was a big slaughterhouse and
processed meat here until recent times off of the river. There were other laws that said a Negro
free or slave could not own a freight wagon. Free Negroes could own hacks which today we call
taxi cabs, but they couldn't engage the wealthy trade of heavy freight on the river, on the
wagons. And so European immigrants had those kinds of laws pushed through. There were
curfews for Blacks during the antebellum times in Tennessee, but not for whites. So laws that
discriminated between the races, we call Jim Crow laws. And there were Jim Crow laws
according to the way you look at it before the Civil War. But after the Civil War the whites have
to decide what do we do with 26% of the population, most of them former slaves. They're all of
African descent. Do we integrate them into society like when the Germans arrived in the thirties
and the forties 1830s and 40s, when the Jews arrived in 1790s in Tennessee, when the Irish
began to come in droves to Tennessee, especially Memphis in the 1850s? Do we just
assimilate them into society? Or do we have to do something different?
Luckily they decided that they would not do to the Negro what they had done to the Native
Americans. 1830 President Jackson and the Congress had removed these people from
Tennessee. Removed them from Georgia, from Alabama, from Florida, from Louisiana from
Mississippi, the Choctaw. And made them march all the way out to a reservation and what today
is Oklahoma. So Native Americans had been not only segregated from the rest of society, they
had been excluded from the rest of society.
�5
And there were proposals during the Civil War, including coming through President Lincoln’s
office, to colonize the freed slaves somewhere else; Central America, West Indies, Latin
America, Mexico, outside of the United States. But the final decision was made to free the
slaves in the United States, December 18, 1865. But now what do you do? He's a freed man, he
has no rights, can't vote, can't sue, he owns no land. What do you do with him? And so in 1866
Congress proposed a new amendment and that is the 14th amendment to the Constitution.
Finally ratified took two years to get agreement in 1868 and that provided that anybody born in
the United States is hereby a citizen of the United States. They didn’t use race, but they're
talking about the former slaves. All that four and a half million people are now citizens of the
United States, just like that. With one sentence, all persons born in the United States are hereby
citizens of the United States and they are to be given equal protection of the laws.
The third part of the amendment, due process of the law. You can't do anything to him unless
you put him in jail or whatever, unless you do it according to the due process of law. Says that
particular amendment. And so by 1868 he is a citizen and Tennessee has already agreed to this
in 1866. He's now not just freed; he's a citizen of the state of Tennessee, by 1866. But now
legislators are debating how do we treat him. The Fourteenth Amendment says, “You got to
treat him equal.” But they develop “separate but equal”. They develop laws in the General
Assembly of Tennessee that are Jim Crow laws. The first one says a person of African descent,
and I'm paraphrasing, a person of African descent even a mixed-race, because 10% of the
slaves are mulatto half of the free Negroes are mulatto. Mulatto means, one of the parents is
white and one of the parents is Black. They are of mixed parentage. Even those persons cannot
marry a white person as they described it in that 1866 legislation. They also develop laws about
whether they can vote or not. And in Nashville and cities that have horse-drawn streetcars, they
provide that they must ride on the back of the streetcar, which are drawn by horses.
So the first Jim Crow laws are really passed as a reaction to the emancipation of these four and
a half million people that are living, many percent of them, in the fifteen southern former slave
states and former Confederate States. And this is a way to govern the races as people argue at
that time. In 1870, the Congress decides to deal with another problem. They propose the
Fifteenth Amendment to the Constitution, that all persons who are citizens of the United States
are guaranteed the right to vote. So the vote is protected and they are not mentioning race/color
in any of these national amendments, just as the founding fathers wisely and cleverly did not
mention white Black race, anything of color in the original Constitution. They simply say all
citizens in the United States have the right to protection, of the right to vote. And that solves one
of the Jim Crow laws where they are trying to cut out former slaves from voting. For example:
Alabama, Mississippi, some others, passed the Jim Crow law that said you can vote but you
must take a test, a literacy test. You must prove you are intelligent, you can read and write so
when you came to register to vote they said read this and if you couldn't read it you were
ineligible to vote. So Congress was responding to things like that. However remember half of
Tennessee who are white, can't read and write. So they have a grandfather clause in Alabama
and Mississippi in these states, that says if your grandfather was a voter during the election of
�6
1860, that's when Lincoln was elected, then you are exempt from taking the literacy test. And of
course no Blacks in Tennessee were eligible to vote in 1860 because of the 1835 constitution of
Tennessee. It disenfranchised all of the free Negroes who had the right to vote. When
Tennessee became a state in 1795, they voted right up until 1835. So by 1860 none of them
were voting. No Blacks were voting. Certainly the slaves could not vote and therefore they will
be cut out from voting. So the Fifteenth Amendment of the National Constitution protected the
right to vote. That's the one that's under debate today because out of that amendment came the
1965 Voting Rights Act. Because the Fifteenth Amendment says Congress has the power to
detail, you know, right in the details Fifteenth Amendment is only three or four paragraphs.
Congress has the right to follow with legislation to effect this amendment. And of course, the
most comprehensive piece of legislation was in 1965 Voting Rights Act, which in 2014 is now
being debated and the Supreme Court is chipping away at that 1965 Voting Rights Act.
Whereas as I say, the Civil War as one great historian said in his recent book, “we're still fighting
the Civil War. We're still fighting the Civil War”. So in 1870, the Fifteenth Amendment protected
the right to vote and, specifically, is referring to the former slaves. These are all men now
because the women don't do not have the right to vote yet and they still are excluded, you know,
from the right to vote. But in 1870, Tennessee was redeemed. That is, the Democratic Party
was the pro secessionist party. The Democratic Party was the party of Andrew Jackson born in
the 1830s. The Democratic Party was the pro-slavery party. The Democratic Party is the party
that will fight Lincoln tooth and nail every step of the way and the federal government through
the time that he was president of the United States. And will oppose the Emancipation. But in
1870 they recaptured the state government from Warren G (Brownlow) from the governor and
the Republicans. And Tennessee became all Democratic and one of the first things the
Democrats did, they revised the constitution again and that is the 1870 Constitution which we
now use in the state of Tennessee. It was revised. It included a poll tax. It included that
anti-miscegenation law. They now put this into, not into legislative law, but into constitutional law
and the Democrats who control the state refuse to ratify the 15th amendment to the
Constitution. Tennessee, as I say to people in other places, don't laugh at Mississippi.
Tennessee did not ratify the 15th amendment to the Constitution of the United States until June
1992. Until June 1992. The only thing that protected Blacks' right to vote in the state of
Tennessee was the National law and the 1965 Voting Rights Act. As far as Tennessee was
concerned, they had no protection for the right to vote, until Tennessee decided to ratify that
amendment. Until in 1965 Right to Vote Act and of course Tennessee ratified the amendment in
1990, in 1992. So Jim Crow laws were racially discriminating laws that meant to keep the whites
and Blacks separate. But also to keep the Black Tennesseans subordinate. That they really
were according to Jim Crow laws not full-fledged citizens.
Well the 1901 law was meant to segregate Blacks and whites in higher education. Tennessee
had a law in 1867, that forbid the teaching and learning of students of white and Black race in
the same school. So school segregation was a state law in Tennessee 1867. But there was no
segregation of higher education and one of the reasons there was no segregation of higher
education, Tennessee had no state colleges. Northern states had them. There was Michigan.
�7
All of them had land-grant institutions, which were public colleges. Tennessee was still a
half-century behind. She had not a single higher education institution sponsored by the state
itself, so there was no public college in Tennessee. So they had never paid attention to that and
Tennessee will not have a public institution of higher education until the General Assembly
adopts a private school over in East Tennessee. East Tennessee University, which changed its
name to the University of Tennessee. And in 1907, Tennessee assumed control and finance of
that institution. That was the first state College for the state of Tennessee. Other than that,
Tennessee had not and then in 1909, two years later, the General Assembly passed a law to
create four public teachers colleges. Today they are: East Tennessee State University, Middle
Tennessee State University, University of Memphis and one for Blacks Tennessee State
University. Four of them were created, so by 1912 Tennessee had its first five public institutions
of higher education for its particular citizens.
So after the Civil War Maryville College which had always admitted a few Black students.
Franklin College in Nashville, which went out of business right after the Civil War in 1865, they
of course continued to admit Black students to their student bodies just as they had before. But
a case came before the United States Supreme Court in 1901 that had nothing to do with
Tennessee, it was Kentucky. And Kentucky’s Berea College had admitted Blacks from the very
beginning of his founding in 1855. In fact Berea College grew to be more Black students and
white students by the 1880s. Anti-slavery people had established it. And its Charter said it must
always be a biracial institution, so segregation was forbidden in the original charter a Berea.
However, Jim Crow is spreading across the south and Jim Crow advocates in Kentucky, they
put a bill through the General Assembly of Kentucky that you cannot have Blacks and whites
attending the same classes. And that was called the Day Law in Kentucky. So Berea has to
expel all the Black students. And Berea decides, Berea College sets up a separate school in
Louisville with some money to educate those students who, Lincoln Institute is what they called
it, named after President Lincoln. They called it Lincoln Institute over near Louisville, where the
Black students would be admitted and they can continue their education. Tennessee copies that
and in 1901, Tennessee has a Day Law that says students cannot attend class and schools in
the same place of opposite races and that includes private schools. This case, the Berea case,
the Maryville College case, similar cases, go all the way to the Supreme Court. Because Berea
College sues the state of Kentucky, that this is unconstitutional. These are private institutions,
these are not public institutions, these are private institutions. And the state does not have the
right or the power to come in and tell a store owner or to tell a college owner they have to
segregate their facility. But the United States Supreme Court in 1905 agreed. And in 1905 they
agreed that a state has the right to segregate its citizens even in private institutions. And
consequently after 1905, segregation of higher education institutions in Tennessee, it is legal it
is the practice during that particular time. At the same time remember Harvard and Yale and
Cornell and northern institutions are admitting Black students. The northern land-grant
institutions, since they were created in 1862 never excluded Blacks. They segregated them on
campus, but they did not exclude them from attending the institutions. Southern higher
education is going to segregate them from the institution period and they cannot, you know,
come on campus, live on the campus, attend classes or whatever. So the Jim Crow law of 1901
�8
was very harsh. Maryville College provides about $25,000 of its endowment money to establish
a school as Berea College did for the Blacks and that is Swift Memorial College which is a
private institution, but also supported by the Presbyterians just as Maryville College was
established. And with the segregation of Maryville College in 1905, the precedent is set in
Tennessee that there will be no colleges and universities that Blacks can attend other than
schools that are set up for Blacks. And by that time, there are about 10 or 12 private Black
institutions of higher education including Swift Memorial College, LeMoyne-Owen College in
Memphis, Fisk University in Nashville, Meharry Medical College in Nashville and several others
at that time. So you can go to a Black school, private, because the state of Tennessee has no
public institution for whites or Blacks by 1905. But Tennessee is given money to George
Peabody College for teachers in Nashville. Appropriations for the East Tennessee University the
University of Tennessee by that time and Black legislators argue that this is discrimination that is
against the Constitution of the United States. And so the General Assembly of Tennessee in
1880s, around 1880 to 83, they began to give scholarships to students who are Black in each
County, who want to go to a higher education institution and they can take that scholarship and
go to Fisk University or one of the other Black schools at the time. So there is some support for
Black higher education but the total number of students who were financed under that plan was
about less than 20 so there's no real access to higher education for Black Tennessee who still
make up, now, nearly 25% of the whole state's population by that particular time. And they will
make up nearly 21% of the population as late as World War I.
So one fourth of the population of Tennessee are excluded from higher education, financed by
the public, according to the Jim Crow laws of the state of Tennessee, but in 1909 the state
created four teacher colleges. And through some pressure they include a Black one for the
Blacks and that was Tennessee Agricultural and Industrial State Normal School. These were
two-year teacher training institutions in East Tennessee, Middle Tennessee, West Tennessee
for whites and one which was situated in Nashville for Blacks. And so Blacks get access but that
school is going to be discriminated against in terms of resources, in terms of curriculum. What it
can offer and what it can not offer in that school, so by 1941, 42 Blacks sue the state of
Tennessee. They sued in 1937 because they could go to Tennessee A&I State College, but
they couldn't go to graduate school at University of Tennessee. The only public graduate school
in the state of Tennessee, who was getting almost a million dollars a year now from the state of
Tennessee, they've got pharmacy, they've got engineering, they've got law, they've got
medicine. They've got all these graduate and professional programs, but Black Tennesseans
cannot attend the University of Tennessee. So in 1937, Tennessee A&I graduate, William B
Redmond, William B Redmond sued, with the help of the NAACP, in the state court. And the
state turned him down. Instead, what they did was they created an out-of-state scholarship
program for the state of Tennessee for any Black who wanted to go to University of Tennessee
for any subject that was not offered at Tennessee A&I. And so, in 1937 Tennessee began out of
state fellowships, where Blacks had to choose to go out of the state in order to attend another
school anywhere. He could go to the University of Michigan, and he could go to Howard
University. He could go anywhere he wanted, but he couldn't go to the University of Tennessee.
Those scholarships lasted until 1962. Tennessee was still passing out Jim Crow scholarships to
�9
those people. And Tennessee, in 1946-47, Tennessee under the leadership of the governor at
the time started appropriations to Meharry Medical College. Now they would give Meharry in
Nashville, the Black Medical College, money for students to attend who otherwise said they
wanted to go to UT Medical School, because Mr. Redmond sued to go to the pharmacy school
at UT, which was over in Memphis and he was turned down. Now you can go to Meharry and
the state of Tennessee gives them a scholarship. An appropriation, that they can handle those
particular students.
That saved Jim Crow for another, what, 14 years or so until Brown versus the Board of
Education in 1954, decreed that separate but equal, no matter how you put it, was
unconstitutional. That it was unconstitutional, whereas the court had said in the case of Plessy
versus Ferguson, a case out of Louisiana, that states could separate the races and it wasn't
unconstitutional. It was not a violation of the fourteenth amendment, as long as the state could
prove that they treated the races equal. In other words, if you gave whites a public school you
had to give Blacks a public school. If White's had a water fountain where they could stop and for
the convenience of drinking water in public, you had to have one for Blacks. If whites could ride
on a railroad train, then you had to provide a place where Blacks could ride. As long as you
treated them equally, then you could discriminate said the Supreme Court in 1896. But in 1954,
the US Supreme Court unanimously 9-0 said that is unconstitutional, because separate but
equal is inherently unequal. Because the people who are making the laws are not Blacks they're
whites. They are always going to make the law in their favor. They're always going to build a
better school for themselves. They're always going to have a better train car for themselves,
then for the Blacks or others. It's just inherently unequal.
And it's damaging to the child because they did psychological studies on little four and five six
year old kids, Black kids, and they asked them to take tests, you know. They asked Black kids in
the psychological test “which of these two pictures here is the prettiest person?” they always
picked out the white person. Which of these trees is a prettiest tree? Which tree looks like a
Black tree? They picked out a tree with dead leaves you know. They had been damaged by the
time they were 5 years old to believe that they were inferior and that the other side was
superior. That was the damaging effects of separate but equal. And as a result, in 1954, the
Supreme Court said we got to get rid of this and there's no halfway you know between it, where
you can say we're gonna give them the back of the bus and whites take the front of the bus and
so on. It was damaging only to them physically, but it was damaging to these young people
mentally. Generations of Black people were literally their, self-confidence, their image of
themselves was destroyed by Jim Crow. They still suffer from that legacy of slavery and Jim
Crow today. And you can look at that through the performance of Black students in the
classroom. Of the punitive nature of trying to govern them in the classroom. Of the differences in
the ACT and SAT score between Blacks and whites, and the differences of the percentage of
Blacks who have college degrees today, compared to the percentage of whites who have
college degrees all across the board. Today Jim Crow’s legacy and the legacy of slavery, as far
as education is concerned, still rings. We're still dealing with those particular legacies that affect
all of us whether they are Blacks or whites or Asians or whatever, because Jim Crow is
�10
embedded in the racism of the society and the only way you can get it out said one civil rights
leader in the 1960s and Nashville
You're gonna have to wash it and wash it and wash it and wash it some more before you can
cleanse the society. And that is still going on today. We're still washing and washing and
washing and it'll probably, in my opinion, be at least another hundred years before our American
society is cleansed. It's been a hundred and fifty years ago since slavery. As you can see it took
that long just to get beyond that particular legacy in the state of Tennessee and across the
United States. Finally, I'll say Jim Crow laws were laws, in other words, Jim Crow was what we
call in Latin “de jure”. In other words, it was legal racism. It can also be “de facto” and that is in
Latin, translating from Latin to to English “de facto” means “in fact”. In other words, it's not by
law but in fact, it does exist. In fact, people do practice it. So de jure segregation, it was
practiced as the norm. Now in the South they are practicing de jure racial segregation. This is a
law that says you got to sit on the back of the streetcar. You know you can't sit on the front of
the streetcar. Well in the North, it was de facto. You could not, in New York City, go and stay in
this hotel if you were Black. You could not go into this restaurant in New York City and eat if you
were Black. And there were certain schools in the North, in Pennsylvania, you could not go to
and New York. So in the north it was de facto which the Supreme Court in ‘54 couldn't deal with.
They can only deal with de jure, the legal segregation is unconstitutional. How do you deal with
the the segregation that’s de facto. So since 1954, we have still been washing and washing to
get rid of that. That's what the Supreme Court of 2014 is dealing with, that, in fact, these things
still exist in voting and so on and so on. They are not law now. Alabama doesn't have the
literacy test anymore and all of that, but it has disenfranchised half of all adult Negro men in the
state of Alabama. And it's done that through criminal injustice laws. If you have a record, you
can't vote. And there's no way for you to, what, to redeem your right to vote in Tennessee. You
can, what, redeem it. You can go and apply and petition and, what, regain your citizenship after
you have been, you know, a convicted criminal (acts) so on so on. If you want to, many of them
don't. So many people are still disenfranchised, which the Black Caucus is dealing with in the
state of Tennessee. Simply because they had a criminal record and Tennessee has adopted the
same Jim Crow laws as Alabama, as Mississippi and so on. Or you can do it in other ways. You
know you can, you know, move the voting places around. Tennessee does that. You can say
you are not allowed to vote anymore because your registration is expired. You’ve moved to
another place, you know, you have to re-register. If you move to another district and so on and
so on. I mean there are all kinds of de facto discrimination segregation laws. Or you have to you
have to show me ID. And so that is prolific across the country because many Black persons
don't have a permanent ID or driver's license cause they're moving around. They're the most
mobile population moving from one rental place to another rental place and so on and so on so.
We got them, they can't you know they can't vote, but the Supreme Court and they have agreed
they can't bother us because this is not legal, this is not a law. You know this is something we
do de facto.
What is important about education? Education is a liberating force. It liberates an individual,
who's nothing but an animal species. That's all we human beings are, but education transforms
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us into what it is to be human. That's what education does. So out of all other species on this
planet, have the same things we have, but what lifts us as human beings above other species is
a form of education that we receive. And that's why we call it ,in many places, liberal arts
education, because it's a liberating experience. If the person is really educated, then the person
is a changed person. That many people will go to school and go to colleges, universities and
they have diplomas and degrees that doesn't mean that they're an educated person. Because
education must transform the person, holistically. The whole person's got to be transformed. In
education. He knows and can do, in other words, what he knows is sacred knowledge, what he
can do; new skills, that other human beings and other species on this planet do not know and
cannot do. So a person who really wants to be educated hungers for that education. That's why
the slaves wanted to know how to read and write. Why is it that the master can read that piece
of paper, something on that piece of paper and he's saying something to another person and I
can't do that? So slaves just hungered, you know, to learn to read and write. How do you do
that? Because the most difficult thing for a human being, in my opinion, is to take a pen or a
pencil and put something on a piece of paper, out of their mind, and have another human being
look at the piece of paper and interpret it and understand exactly what they mean. It is the most
difficult form of human communication. So education is a liberating force. That's why today,
many conservatives and others are attacking the colleges, taking money from them. They are
turning them into for-profit institutions to make money, not to teach people anything but to make
money and so on. Because just like the slave master, it's dangerous to have a population that is
really educated. That's dangerous. If you have a population that's really educated you advance
democracy. You cannot have a democracy with an ignorant population. The more educated the
population is, the more advanced democracy becomes in that particular society. It's not to the
advantage of the 1% of this population, which owns 85% of the wealth in this country, to have
people as smart as they are, as knowledgeable as they are, as skilled as they are ,any more
than the slave master wanted his slaves walking around with a college degree. He would have
no slaves. Yes. All the slaves had a high school education. You know he couldn't. It was
impossible and so education is a liberating force. It's a necessity for a democratic institution or a
democratic country. It must have an educated population. The cradle of democracy, the Greek.
They were not ignorant people. There was a form of education, in that particular culture, and so
education is also for those who don't like it and those who want to control the others. It's a
dangerous thing to have people educated. When you're educated, you're just not the same
anymore.
When I left Memphis, Tennessee to go to college, down at Arkansas State College, 165 miles
away across the river in Arkansas, I left and went away to school out of state because I realized
I could never be different from the people in my neighborhood if I had the same skills and the
same education as they had. And most of them had very little in my neighborhood. And when I
came back, there were people saying well you talk different, you're acting different, you dress
different, you don't act like us. And I said that's because I'm educated now. You know, I want a
way to get better educated, so that I could be different. So educated people are supposed to be
different. They're supposed to speak different, write different, think different, dress different, act
different. That's an educated person. We all can act in common, but that you know the genius of
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human society are its most educated persons. And if you look for revolving and evolving human
society, there's nobody who has been uneducated in modern history who's led a revolution. So
you know Mr. Castro down in Cuba, had a PhD and a law degree. Lenin and you know all those
guys that led the revolutions in Russia, they were doctorates and law degrees. Mao Zedong
college educated person in China. And so we go all over the world and it is that segment of
society that helps to promote a more rapid progression of human society that bring about the
changes. Yes some people invent things, but most people who are inventors are pretty
educated people. Look at all of them going back in industrial America, you know, history they
were pretty educated people. We know things that other people don't know and if we don't
know, we know how to learn and that's what an educated person for most is. He is a person
who knows how to learn and a good teacher is a teacher who knows how to teach his students
how to learn. And once a person learns something they can learn to do anything because they
know how to study, they know how to research stuff or read stuff and so on. That's the key, is
the gaining of the skill of how do you learn and so education it's uplifting.
If it had not been for those schools, the freedmen schools, 800 of them after emancipation
cropped up to teach the former slave how to read and write. Once he can read and write he can
learn for himself, he can go get books, you know, we teach them how to learn and that has been
the most liberating force for that 4.5 million slaves former slaves. And now, today, they're 43
million descendants that live in the United States. Education has been the liberating force of
that. And so it's very important in our human society. But even if you look at other species, and I
was looking at a show the other day, all species have an education system, you know, they
teach their young how to, what, survive. They teach them the necessary skills they need to get
to the next generation and that's what we do, you know. So even the other species, they can't
survive without educating their young, you know, they just can't do it. It can't happen, you know.
They have to teach them, even if it's a whale, you know, she's got to teach that baby, well what
are the skills that he or she needs to survive in that broad big ocean. And so education is simply
a liberating force. It is a necessary force. You know, for us, species on this earth but more so
importantly for the human species, us.
They put these guys with New England nests and New Englanders reservoir were foremost for
starting education in the United States they started the first college. Harvard in 1630. And in the
South it was the opposite because slaveholders didn't promote schools. First they didn't want
the slaves to read and write. They didn't want the white workers who were the managers of their
plantations to be too educated. And they of course didn't want the white masses to have access
to education. They could afford and they did send their children to military academies. They sent
them to you know have private classes for them, they had tutors for them, they even sent them
north to go to school. They sent them to European universities to go to school. One of the
problems with the Confederacy is that you have some officers who were put into the
Confederate Army in 1861 because they were volunteers and like Nathan Bedford Forrest they
could afford to raise a regiment or company, but they couldn't read and write. These other uppity
Confederate officers with their fancy uniforms could read and write they had been to school,
some of them had been to college. If you noticed the top generals back then they had been to
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the Academy, you know, to be trained as military officers and that's why they treated Nathan
before Florence and those guys the way they did. You know, they gave them assignments that
didn't make no sense that kept them out of the way, you know, raiding places, tearing up
railroads and raiding contraband camps and stuff like that. As one new book says, if Jefferson
Davis, who was just as snobbish as his set of generals, had used a Confederate cavalry
effectively he may have been able to negotiate his way out of the Civil War. Because they had a
hundred thousand cavalry men, you know, people on horses and so on, and the Confederate
force. But they never used them as an effective force. They never used them at Shiloh, they
never used them at Fort Donelson and never use them at Fredericksburg. And so they never
used those guys, so as a result education made a difference because the Democrats were on
this side, Republicans were on this side, they were the ones who passed the public school they
call it a common school law in 1867. That was a Republican legislature that passed a common
school law that started public schools in Tennessee in 1867. So yeah it made a difference you
know. Between the Democrats coming into power, they intended on even if they have to hold all
Tennesseans down, not getting education, you know, to Black's just as they had been doing
during that time.
But you know remember now, the parties we are talking about today are the flip-flop, you know.
Let’s call the Democrats of today, the Republicans of a hundred and fifty years ago. And the
Republicans of today are the Democrats, you know of Jim Crow times. You know they're two
different profiles of those parties, you know, today. And the Republicans today are more anti
educational, anti intellectual than the Democrats because the Democrats today, the only way
they survive is by the inclusion of minorities, women, Blacks, brown, yellow people and so on
and working-class people and middle class people were trying to move up and so they've been
pretty Pro education since they flip-flop, since 1948. And so if you look at the federal Higher
Education Act it was passed under Democrats. Lyndon Johnson you know, in 1965. You look at
all of those the early ones in the 40s, under Harry S Truman, Democrats you know. So they're a
flip-flop today. But they were pretty, if you had to divide them between the intellectual party in
the anti intellectual party in 1870 it would be that it would be the Democrats as the anti
intellectual party. As historian Richard Hofstadter says in his book the “History of
Anti-intellectualism in American Life”, not just Tennessee but in many places across the states,
there's a grain of intellectualism where people don't want to be intellectualized. And the wealthy
certainly don't want the general population to be intellectualized, because if you intellectualize
then you value learning, you hunger for learning, you get smarter than the boss, you know and
the boss doesn't want you getting smarter. Instead of him owning eighty percent of all the
wealth, you'll own 80 percent of all the wealth. It'll be the other way around. And slave owners
only made up fifteen percent of the families in the state of Tennessee owned slaves. Eighty-five
percent of the people in Tennessee did not and could not afford to own a single slave. But that
fifteen percent of the families in the book I'm writing now, I called them the “Slavetocracy”, the
slaveholding class, that fifteen percent of Tennesseans own 57 percent of the best land in the
state of Tennessee. If we overlay that up today 2014, say what percentage of the families in
Tennessee own the construction companies especially, highway construction comes it's only
five six percent, if we overlaid Antebellum times with 21st century Tennessee, it would look
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about the same. It would look about the same, in terms of the malproportion of wealth. Because
it’s still malproportioned, between those who have and most of us.
I have not, although we think we got a lot. We got a car, we got a house and so on, but our
country is still, since 1607 filthy rich. The resources of this country are unbelievable. Everybody
outside understands that, but us. It is unbelievable but the way that we divided up then and now
is kind of shameful you know and history proves that so you know it's a very complex story you
know, when you get in talking about education and economics and so on. Because that's the
key, you know. I mean, studies show the higher your education the more the income. The
Republicans were more Pro education than the Democratic party. Again keep in mind the
Democratic Party was born as a result of Andrew Jackson becoming president in 1828. And the
Democratic Party is the party of the masses, you know. All these people are being left out of the
prosperity of the country. The common man as Jacksonians called it. They want to be included.
We want land, we want, well, we want slaves, you know. We want the same things, you know,
as the wealthy people. And so the Democratic Party became very powerful party but necessarily
also a pro-slavery party and anti-education, you know. People thought and still think, you know,
these boneheads that are educated are good-for-nothing, you know. That education ain't good
for nothing. We need to put them out there and let them grow some crops, you know, and pick
some cotton or something. But education ruins a man and that's what many people said back in
that day and time. That education really was the ruination of many people.
So the Republicans, what did they do in 1862 when the Democrats were out of power and the
Confederates were in control of the southern states? one of the most important acts they
passed that still affects us today was the 1862 Morrill Land Grant Act. And that act set aside
land, public land, federal land that would be turned over to the states and the states can sell that
land to set up their first public college. That's why there's a University of Michigan, that's why
there's Ohio State, that's why there is the University of Kansas. Every state has a land-grant
institution today. Auburn is a land grant in Alabama, Auburn University is a land-grant.
University of Mississippi is the land-grant. And in the southern states, because of segregation
beginning in 1891, they put an amendment on the Morrill Land Grant Act, you cannot cut out
people from those land-grant institutions, you either mustn't let them come to you know
Michigan State or Illinois State or you can create a separate institution for, and all of the
southern states they created separate institutions. So there you find two land-grant colleges;
Auburn University, Alabama State University, the Black one. In Tennessee its University of
Tennessee. Tennessee A&I is a Black land-grant. Mississippi University of Mississippi, Jackson
State University is the Black one. Go through every one of them. And every southern state that
has a land-grant Institute, has two land grant institutions. But that was because of the
Republicans and why?
The Republican Party when it was formed in 1854 out of anger against the Kansas-Nebraska
Act ,which said you can now bring slaves into Nebraska or Kansas or any new territory as long
as the people in that area, popular sovereignty, voted in their state constitution to allow slavery.
They are angry. So all these guys came together and formed a new party the Republican Party
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in 1854. 1854, Lincoln is so angry he comes back into politics in Illinois where he was so
disgusted with Congress as a congressman he left politics and went back into law. But they
passed this God forbidden Kansas-Nebraska Act and the Free Soil Party, they joined the
Republican Party. And the Free Soilers are mostly New Englanders. They don't want any slave
masters coming into the new territory, because they think they are retrogressive. They kept
them out of Ohio, the Northwest Territory. They didn't want southerners moving into Illinois they
didn't want them moving into Wisconsin or Michigan, because they thought they were
educationally retrogressive when they passed the northwest order.
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Carolyn Trammell-Cox
Rogersville, Tennessee
2013
I was at Swift from 1959 through 1963, May of 1963. When people talk about Swift, the things that
come to my mind -- I guess I'm a little bit unique in that my whole family, all of my brothers and sisters
(I'm from a large family) all of my brothers and sisters graduated from Swift. And my early childhood
memories are leaving the pier at Price Public, where I went to school, and going over to Swift, going in
classes with my older brothers and sisters, interacting at ball games, and things like that that they did. I
would come over to the College and participate in different things. So, I have a long memory of Swift
time. I would go in the cafeteria. I had a play family over here, play mother and a play father, and I
would go in the dorm rooms, all those things. So, I have I have a lot of happy memories from Swift days,
the college days as well as the high school. When I was at Swift -- I'm a very involved type person. I was
involved with the basketball team, which I looked forward to. I played basketball from seventh grade
through twelfth. I was a cheerleader during football season, and then when basketball season [came], I
would play basketball. I was part of the glee club. So, we participated in different things with that, with
the glee club. We had always had a May Day celebration, and I participated in different dramatic
activities, home economics activities, and things like that that we did for May Day.
Basketball, I guess, would be my favorite because I have a great love for sports. I'm not very good at it,
but I loved it. So, I guess basketball was my favorite activity.
Johnson City, Langston was one of our big rivals and so was Douglas and Kingsport. You have to
understand when I played basketball, it's different from what they do now. We played half-court. You
had three guards and three forwards, three on each side, and you only played on your side. When the
ball went to the other side, you couldn't cross the line. If you cross the line, it was a foul on your team.
So, it was a different type of competitive basketball than it is right now.
When I was in school, we didn't have a boarding school. They closed that in ’55, when they closed the
College, and it became grades 1 through 12. So, we didn't have the boarding school at that time. So, I
lived out in the country, and I rode the bus in to school. I did not attend the Junior College. By the time I
started in ‘59, it was just grades 1 through 12. My sister was part of the last class of the College in 1955,
and I was part of the last class in 1963 of the high school, when they closed the school completely.
That was a sad time, when we found out that that was going to be the last year of our school, and that
particular graduation was very special to all of us. It was particularly special to me because my oldest
brother, who had also graduated from Swift, was the speaker -- the commencement speaker -- that
year. And of course, that was in the back of all of our minds that this was it, that there would be no
more Swift. So, it was a happy time because we were graduating, but it was also a sad time because we
knew that it was the end of our era for us.
I did not personally attend a desegregated school in Hawkins County. Now, when I graduated from Swift,
I went to East Tennessee State University. And of course, that was the first year of integration at ETSU,
and that was quite a different experience for me because, number one, being from such a small school,
my graduating class was only ten. Right now, I can name every one of them because it was only ten of
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us. It was like a small family. So, I went from that to a university, and it was it was quite an
overwhelming experience for me.
Trying to get at least seven kids out of the house in the morning… There were ten of us all together, but
usually, by the time I have recollection of things, some of my older brothers were in the Army, or they
had moved out of the house. But trying to get -- it was always at least six or seven of us -- to get up, get
their breakfast, and we had to walk from the top of the hill down to the “road” to catch the bus. And
there was always somebody having to hold the bus while that last one ran down the hill, and it was
pretty hilarious. But the bus driver was kind to us, and he would always wait. I remember one particular
instance where we were all at school, and this heavy snow came. And they always turned out school if it
was going to snow, but some for some reason, we didn't get out of school in time. It was a real deep
snow, and we could not go the side roads. You could only go on the main roads to deliver all the
students, and the bus driver announced that he wasn't going off the main road. He was, you know, you'd
have to walk home. And I remember my sister saying, “Well, if you're not going to take me home, you
just let me off right here,” and he looked up at her, and he said, “No Marilyn, I'm going to take you
home.” So, he did. He took us home, and I remember my oldest brother made the trail for the rest of us,
and we hopped in his footsteps to get up to the house. So, it was pretty interesting that day.
I really didn't have that type of peer pressure on me as the youngest to go through the school. I think
because they knew all of us, they treated us individually. Now, the only one that really put pressure on
me was my aunt, who was one of the teachers here at Price Public, and she kind of held us to a higher
standard than the other teachers did. But basically, they allowed us to be our own person, and that's
what was so, I guess, unique about Swift because they didn't stereotype you because your brother was
smart or your sister was a good athlete, or you know that type thing. We didn't have to go through that.
I guess the one thing that stands out in my mind about Swift is our teachers cared about us as
individuals. Most of them knew your family history, knew your parents, knew your brother, sister, knew
all about you. So, if you got in trouble, you knew your parents were going to know. So, it kind of kept
you on a straight and narrow, so to speak, but the teachers cared. They not only cared about your
education; they cared about your personal life. If you had a personal problem, you didn't have to
hesitate to go to one of the teachers and let them know what your problem was. I have seen teachers
pay for things for different students that did not have the finances for something that was coming up -maybe an outfit or a costume for a program we were having. Teachers would pay for that out of their
own money. The love and care that they had for the students, the respect that they had for the
students, also allowed us to respect them. So, I guess that's the underlying heart of what Swift meant to
us.
I can tell you a funny story. Well, I have two. The first one was with my class. There was only one guy in
the class, and a couple of years ago, they asked me to speak about some things concerning Swift at one
of our reunions. Well, I called this one guy, and I said, “Reverend, they want to know some things about
Swift. Do you have any memories that you can help me pull up so I can tell them?” and the first thing he
said was, “Well, do you remember how we cleaned the floors?” and I [said], “Cleaned the floors?” He
said, “Yes, don't you remember how we had to clean the floors?” We took sawdust, some kind of oily
sawdust, and put that all over the floors and had to rub the floors down and then sweep that up, and
that was how they cleaned the floors and shined the floors. So, I thought that was pretty interesting, but
my funny story is… We were doing a Christmas play, and the girls were dressed up, with their little
white sheets, as angels. and we had real candles. And I was the first person in line, and there were about
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three or four behind me. And we were going out to do our play, but somebody told me to stop. The ones
behind me didn't get the message, and I'm getting ready to step out the door. Somebody grabs me and
starts beating me in the head, and I'm going, “What's going on?” Well, the girl behind me that didn't
know to stop, put her candle into my ponytail, and my whole head was on fire! And I didn't even know
it! So, when people started beating me in the head, I'm going, “What's going on?! What's wrong?” Every
time I see her today, I remind her of that, that she burned off my ponytail.
You know, I've been listening to a lot of information about Swift that I didn't even know, in the last few
days, about how we got started, about Dr. Franklin and his heart to educate young African American
people, about the ties that we have with Maryville College, and you know all of that. Swift has a rich,
rich heritage. We have graduated doctors, lawyers, teachers. And I guess their legacy is the deep sense
of commitment and respect and loyalty to the school and to each other, as we keep coming together.
It's been like 30… We celebrate our 33rd anniversary this year, and there's one lady that has been to
every reunion that we've had. So, I guess the loyalty and the camaraderie is our legacy.
May Day was a special time for us. We all looked forward to getting together because it involved other
schools in the community, in the Hawkins County area. We had kids from New Canton, the school up
there would come in, the school from Petersburg, the school from Zion Hill, all of the schools in the
surrounding counties would come in. And it was a time of big celebration for everybody. We did the
wrapping of the May Pole. We did plays. We did fashion shows. All of that kind of stuff, and it was
something that everybody could participate in. So, it was it was an all-day celebration, and like I said, it
involved all the all the county schools. So, it was a great time. We still have May Day every year. The first
Saturday nearest to the first day of May, we have a May Day celebration. And this year, the first time
since we've been doing it, we got to wrap the Maypole correctly and unwrap it correctly. The other
times we've always messed up, but this time we got it right.
Well, a day for me would start in the morning. I was a farm girl, lived out on the outskirts of Rogersville,
on the farm. And I was a spoiled kid because my older brothers and sisters did all the work. They're the
ones had to get up milk the cows and all that stuff. I didn't do that because I was privileged, but I did
have to get up and get dressed and catch the bus. And even though it's only about ten miles from here
to my house, but we had to go through all these little side places. We went through Petersburg. We
went through Guntown with several little places like that, and it took from… I think we got on the bus
around seven o'clock, and it would be almost 8 o'clock by the time we got to school. You were there for
when the bell rang. You went to class. We usually had chapel in the morning, and just normal days of
going to class. And in the afternoon, you may be part of an activity, extracurricular activity, which may
be intramurals at the gym. I was part of the chorus. So, I would go to chorus. I played basketball. So, on
days that we had basketball practice, I would go do that, and then you’d get on the bus and go home.
That's about it. It wasn't a lot different from what they do now in school. It wasn't that much different.
Well, there wasn't very much TV because we didn't have TV. I would do my homework and play outside.
Like I said, I was privileged. I didn't have to do the chores because I had older brothers and sisters to do
that for me. So, I didn't have a lot to do, but we went to bed early.
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Catherine Snapp-Howard
Rogersville, Tennessee
2012
I attended Swift I guess around ’42. And I ended up, I finished high school in ’47 and junior college in ’49.
May Day was one of the most important occasions that happened at Swift. You met a lot of people from
out of town, the students’ parents and things. and the local schools, they met there. They had the little
programs and things that they brought to Swift to entertain the people.
Well Swift, I think, was the making of what I am today, I think. And it taught me one thing, that, you
cannot live alone. An individual need not think that the school can go on without you. Because it can. So
to be just who you are every day.
Well it means a lot to me at my age because you don’t get to see a lot of the Swiftites, students that
have been there [at Swift]. A lot of them have gone on, and a lot of them are… You just don’t get to see
the people that you used to know. It means something to the old Swiftites get together and enjoy each
other, renew old friendships, that sort of thing.
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Charles W. Hargrave
Rogersville, Tennessee
2013
I went strictly to the high school department. I was at Swift from 1941 to 1945, and now keep in mind
that I was a youngster really when I was at Swift and that I had lived there for five years from ‘36 to ‘41
because my father was President. So, I was there as a youngster attending Price Public here and then,
from there to Swift.
Well, primarily I remember more of the sports activities a youngster, rather than the football games and
that type of activity. However, as a student, obviously I was there as a full-time student as a boarding
student on campus. Both times I was living on campus.
Oh, no. I was I was a model student. Seriously, I'm living there, and I'm also changed from living there to
living there as a student. So, it was nearly eight straight years at Swift as a student and… That was my
home.
What it was is that Swift was Swift Memorial Junior College. The high school department of the College,
so he was President of the overall activity. My father came to Swift in, I believe, 1926 as Head of the
Department of Education. He was there under Dr. Tucker, who was then President. So, my father stayed
at Swift in the Department of Education from ‘26 to ’36. He assumed the presidency in ‘36 and was there
4 or 5 years to ‘41. I really didn't feel the responsibility in that sense because the new president, Dr. Lee,
had been under, with my father in the meantime, under Dr. Tucker. and at the same time, Roberta Lee,
who was the daughter of Dr. Lee, and I were students at the same time. So, I didn't feel any undue
responsibility for that fact, but obviously my father was, I mean, he was an influence while I was at Swift,
obviously.
He was a Presbyterian minister and served a number of parishes in Kentucky and in Tennessee, but most
recently in Dandridge, Tennessee, where he served – I think – Straw Plains, New Market, and Dandridge
at the same time. I'm not aware of how he and Dr. Tucker became acquainted, but I do know that at that
time, he went to Rogersville in ’26.
The main thing, of course we were in a boarding complex, which meant that we had meals. We went to
class, lunch, class. So, your day was already influenced with everything that was in a boarding school
environment. At the same time, a number of youngsters from Rogersville itself, were day students. So,
they were with us from say 8:00 to 5:00, and we were there 24/7 as a student, boarding student. Well,
keep in mind, as a boarding school, you're there 24/7. So, you’re eating with the same people for
literally nine months out of the year. Breakfast, lunch, and dinner. So, you get to know them. And of
course, we had the devotional services in the morning, and you had the devotional services sometime in
the evening, Sunday services. So, you're seeing the people all the time, and at that time we had zero
dancing. The point I'm trying to make is that the recreation was strictly on campus, and what we did…
We saw everybody, every day, basically all the time.
Basically, Swift had a very, we like to say, a very good football team. I played to my senior year, and
again only because, if you remember, that was ‘44/’45, the time of the war. So, all of the larger men
�21
were out there… in the army or in the military. So, I think one of the chief recreational outlets would be
softball, football for male students, and the young women did not have a basketball team at that time.
Well, at the time I was there, people were leaving for the war rather than returning. And maybe my
senior year in high school, we had a number of persons return. but basically, the main impact the war
had on us: limited food or limited menu. And it is rumored that we had horse meat, but I don't believe
that was the case. That was the story, but that's where we noticed it. And of course, [there] were limited
activities, as far as the war was concerned, we could or could not do.
No, I don't remember favorite meals as such, but again, keep in mind that even on Saturdays and
Sundays, we were still in limited areas. But food is the one thing I remember that were restrictions
during the war.
I graduated in ’45. You know, at the time of desegregation, I had finished college and was working at the
time. So, I can't I can't react to how it… but I know that at Swift, of course, was concerned because at
that time, as you all know, Swift was sponsored, was funded, almost entirely by the Presbyterian Church.
At the time of desegregation, the Presbyterian Church withdrew its support from Swift, and therefore
Swift had to be funded through local sources, and as a result, did not last too long after desegregation.
Swift served as a feeder school for Johnson C. Smith and Charlotte. Those were Presbyterian schools.
Now, the reason I mentioned it is – I also went to JC Smith – but the point is, a number of our faculty
members came from JC Smith. So, I remember those because they were Smith people as a result. And if
you say, “Which faculty members did?” I remember more the football coaches than I do the actual
faculty members as such. You can see I was sports-oriented for the time.
Well, again, the name you're going to hear so many times is gonna be Kyle Patten. He would be able to
kick the ball from one endzone the other endzone. But in all fairness, Swift played other junior colleges
–Friendship, Clapton – and also played a number of… Morristown Junior College, and played a few of
the senior, the four-year schools, such as Blue Field State and some others. And it had a reasonable
record, at the same time, because of the war, Swift started playing schools like Austin High. they would
play the – Langston High – some of the high schools, as well as the colleges.
Morristown. Morristown was the game, and that was the game both in basketball and football. Even
though Swift did not have a formal basketball team, we still engaged them in basketball, softball, and
football. The idea was to beat them. I mean, I think that was the always the idea, but that was the
outstanding rivalry. And as I've said Morristown was a junior college, Swift was a junior college… that
you had that continuing rivalry. Swift was sponsored, was funded, by the Presbyterian Church. So, you
had the influence of the Church in just about everything we did in terms of school activities. I mentioned
a matter of a worship service in the morning, worship service in the evening, Sunday evening services.
So, that was the major influence of what happened at Swift throughout the day, throughout the week,
throughout the year. The strong point of Swift was that, because it was a junior college, it meant that it
had faculty that usually had the Master's degree or better. So, therefore, the people in the high school
department were therefore taught by the persons who were of a different caliber than the usual high
school. So, the impact was more on the high school students than it was on the junior college students
because you would expect junior college people to be schooled by Master’s or Doctorates. But high
school students don't usually get that opportunity, and as a result, a number of Swiftites went on to the
grad, to four-year colleges, and other schools, and then made outstanding records.
�22
Dessa Edyth Parkey Blair
Sevierville, Tennessee
2012
I came from the little poor town, County rather, Hancock County in Tennessee. Sneedville was
the county seat, but my post office was in Tazewell, Tennessee. I was born in Hancock County
and we lived in an all-white neighborhood. My father's family and my grandfather's family were
the only families in the little country neighborhood. We did not have school or Church in our
community, so of course you didn't integrate with the whites at that time. My father taught me at
home, grades one through four. He carved me my alphabets on a wooden paddle. There were
six of us, eventually and that was so that the others could use that same paddle to learn their
alphabet, so when they became of age. And for the extra reading, we read the newspaper that
was plastered on the walls, to clean up the room, you know. I was very inquisitive and was
always asking questions about letters and whatever was on the wall. Now short, they are trying
to make this short. In Hancock County, they had six families on the fringes of Claiborne and
Hancock. So they went across the Hancock and Claiborne line and went to the Claiborne
County school. So was my aunt, her property bordered the county line. Hancock and Claiborne.
What I'm about to tell you is that I stayed with my aunt Pearlee and went to the Claiborne
County school elementary school and in the fourth grade. And my father being a veteran of
World War I in the years from 1914 and 1918. So he met the courts in Sneedville, Tennessee,
often, until he could get a black school erected on the border of Hancock and Claiborne. Then
we were able to walk five miles to school every day. Of course the other Black children are on
the line, down there at Hoop Creek, and they didn’t have far to walk. We had five miles to walk
to school.
Now, so I started in fourth grade, there at the new school erected. And a white guy who was a
Parkey and we were Parkeys. I'm sure slavery thing, a slave thing somewhere way back in
history, because there's a lot of Blacks and whites who have the same names. Anyway, I went
to fourth grade in the newly erected school, in the black neighborhood on the fringes of the
county line. So from there, I went to the school my dad was lucky enough to have built. I, okay, I
did the fourth grade. My teacher skipped me from the fifth grade. From the fourth grade to the
sixth grade. When I got in the sixth grade, the county was so poor they closed the schools. We
didn't get but five months of school that year from that County. But in the meantime, while I was
saying with Aunt Pearlee, at the school the school teacher was walking with us, staying with my
Aunt also, to the Claiborne County elementary school. By then, he was coming from Kentucky in
a one-seater car and he was taking the good road around to the school then. So then, my Dad
approached him and he took three of us, all three of us in that one-seater car to his school. Who
was my first teacher in the beginning, when I was staying with Aunt Pearlee.
Okay I got through that, you know, then I went to Middlesboro, Kentucky and finished high
school there. Then I went to Rogersville for my first year in college. Only went one year. I didn't
stay on campus. I stayed in the city, so I don't know a lot about the campus life and that kind of
�23
thing. But anyway, I was successful in going there and I got a prize for being the best all-around
student in the college department there. Okay so we didn't have to pay every year in tuition.
Tuition there. So, I was only there one year and then I went to Morristown College and got my
other year in junior college.
But where Swift comes in the most for me, is in my elementary years at the new school that my
dad had, it was successful in getting built, all of my teachers, every last one of them came from
Swift. Now that's where I got impressed and taught for real. Black women couldn't do anything
much but teach school, then. And I was so impressed with them and i just admired them. And I
wanted to be like them. And from an early childhood on, my dream was to be a school teacher.
And I got the best education and foundation from those teachers that came from Rogersville. I
compare them with anybody. I went to Morristown College, I graduated from Knoxville College
as valedictorian. I went to University of Tennessee and received a masters. I will compare those
teachers with the will and the skill, of being the best. Now that's how I feel.
The cheapest place I could go and the closest place. Because they really wanted us at home at
that age. Now the later ones were not quite. As my younger sisters came along, ten years later,
from us the first four. And those new ones that came in, they were not as apt as the ones I had.
I have to say that too. We went to (Hoop Creek) for church. I wrote a whole article about that,
about being we had to go there for church.
William Isom: I’d heard about students having to ride the bus from Hoop Creek to Morristown to
go to school.
They did at that time. They rode the bus all the way across that mountain (Clinch Mountain).
Sneedville. Across that mounatain to Morristown Junior College everyday. Everyday. They did
that. My younger cousins. But they were in Claiborne County. They didn’t have any bus, they
didn’t have a set up for that. But that was after they started putting a bigger emphasis on
integrating. That's what caused that, they finally cut it out. But that's a long bumpy ride, over that
mountain everyday. I’m glad I didn’t have to do that. It’d beat you to death.
From Swift, I was an elementary student major, I had very good teachers there, very good
teachers there. But most of my influence came from those teachers that were trained in
Rogersville. That's where most of my influence comes from. And they didn't have to do much to
me, I was all excited about. In fact, I just had a vision. Teaching was my divine calling from out
of those hills and only by the grace of God could you get out of those hills and get an education,
if you had a Black face. That’s the way it was.
But it so happened my dad was a very bright guy, multi-talented. Had more to offer the little
country community than any other one person living there, because he was so talented;
blacksmith, gunsmith, watchsmith, all those things. Plus, he was a good manager. I was reared
on a 66 acre farm and there were six of us, all of them are gone, but with two and we still own it.
Got a nice young white family living in it with about two or three little children and their mother,
�24
her mother is living in my Aunt Pearlee’s house, where I stayed, with the teacher and walked to
Claiborne county school. Hoop Creek.
That's my story. I've got several stories, the News Sentinel put out one. Up in Tazewell, they've
got the story about the Hoop Creek thing. About my going to Hoop Creek and about this white
McNeil family that gave the church, way back when. The house that also became the school
house. And then as life went on ,we had some old-timey deacons there and we were selling,
you know, to buy extra things for the school, blah blah blah. And there was a division about it.
So they gave it up and had a school built in the center of the Hoop Creek community. And that
was built about 1945. And then the church stayed there for a while and it became dilapidated.
And as old spiritual we used to say about, “this building that's got a leak and we got to move, so
that's what we did. To the center of Hook Creek again. And when they got the new building built
and everything, I was some kind of speaker for this new building that they built. Because my
daddy had done so much for it, being a carpenter as he was.
I think of how, how could've I missed this. My pastor says all the time, “Oh you missed it. Let me
come again. How can I missed it?” My dad he spent four years in the military and then he went
to West Virginia and stayed with his sister and worked in the mines and all that kind of thing. I
said “Why in the world did you come back up here in this hollar, when you knew there was no
school for children?” But his father gave him two acres of land. He built a house on it then. And
when he and my mother married, he moved into his house. Because he was not going give half
of his earnings to the sharecropper. He was not and he taught that hard to us. There was not
but one of us that rented for a little while. Every one of us, when we married we had our own
house. Every one of us. Except Hazel, she probably rented about 6 months and then my
parents helped her buy. My dad. Is the main person here. Plus the man above. Look, that's my
story.
Do you know Goins? I mean lives in Rogersville. He goes back and forth to Sneedville up there.
He's a renowned author. Yeah buddy. I wrote, well that was a lady up there, from Sneedville first
wrote this story that I'm telling you. Jack wrote me a letter and had me crying. He said they lived
close to Sneedville, see and they were as poor as Job’s Turkey or something of that kind. And
as far as he could see, Lawrence Parkey was the most intelligent man at the head in the
County. And he wrote me a letter describing the situation and whatnot. And then I called him
about a year ago and he was still over there in Sneedville and I wrote my story also in the
history of Hancock County book. You can get that in Sneedville, Tennessee, too. I didn't know
anything about Hancock County, Volume One. I didn't even know they had it. So the white
family next year, we were just like family. She wrote and said, they’re writing this book, putting
another book out about us. You need to put Lawrence and Roxie in there. I said “I sure do.” So I
didn't even know the book was out or they were doing that or anything. So I caught Volume 2. I
was in Knoxville and we were going to a meeting, over here in right out from Tazewell over
there at the school. And they had this book one in the library there. First time I've seen it, you
know. Hancock County, you know. My Lord there wasn’t a Black face in it nowhere. Nowhere.
And said, well, I declare. But I didn’t know they were going to do a second one or anything, but
�25
my neighbor from home, said “Hey. You need to put Lawrence and Roxie in that book. And
they’re in there. All of us are in there. Short article. And it’s called The History of Hancock
County, or something. Volume 2 now. I missed One, I didn’t know it existed.
“You should write a book.”
Oh they tell me that everytime i tell that story. It is something to behold. You know, I could have
missed it Ruth.
“You should write a book. Who are you going to pass it down to?”
I got several articles around and about. You know Fred Bedell, was the superintendent during
that time in the integrated school (in Knoxville)
Because of the sulfur springs and all that was around it. That’s where I got my mouth and my
boldness from, my Dad. Because when he met those courts and I told them he fought for four
years for all of them, for freedom of all of them. And his children have nowhere to go to school,
something wrong with that. So we got a new school. He had a lot of influence anyway. He
wasn't afraid to stand up and speak for right, I don't care whether it was in the schoolhouse or
the church house or my house. Tell it like it is.
I would just like to say, the competition was very strong there (at Swift College). When I was
there, we had two brothers, Gene Grey. You might have heard of Gene Grey that helped
desegregate the University of Tennessee. And they were brothers and myself my sister was
there when I was there. And you talk about competition. Oh the competition was strong, but it
was the healthy kind. They were good students, Gene was a real good student in chemistry and
all that. And everybody is trying to beat each other, in that way. But now you try to outdo
somebody now, they’ll call you all kinds of names. I mean it's prevalent. Sometimes students
don't want folks to know that they’re doing well and acelling. Because of the “Nerd” and all that
crazy stuff. I don't know where they came. From Mars or somewhere.
�26
Dessa Edyth Parkey-Blair
Rogersville, Tennessee
2013
My name is Dessa Edyth Blair. I was only at Swift for one year, and that was 1947-48. My sister was
already here, and she had done three years of high school and was a freshman in college. I was working
at Oak Ridge at the time, two years at Oak Ridge, and she caught up with me. So, then, I came up here to
be with her as a freshman in college, and I only came here one year as a freshman, did not stay on
campus. I stayed with a family out in the city, one year. Then, I went to Morristown and finished junior
college.
Not that much other than a little football, I think. I think they played against each other, and see, I hate
football. If it was left up to me, I'd outlaw it, because look like somebody's gonna get killed every
minute. Don't talk to me about football.
I was born in Hancock County. My family and my grandfather's family were the only two families in the
white community. My dad was a blacksmith and any other kind of smith you wanna know, and he was a
bigger asset, as one person, to the whole community than anybody else because he was so skilled and
can do so many different things. He taught me grades one through three at home. There was no school
for Black children. The bus passed right by the foot lot?, but we had to walk to school. So, as far as Swift
is concerned, I was only here one year, but every one of my elementary teachers, over there in the hills,
were trained here at Swift. Now, that's why I'm in love with it, and they had excellent teachers, gave you
the good background information. And when you came out of elementary school from having one of
those teachers – I had four, and I still remember all four of them. I have forgotten a lot of the names of
teachers I work with, but I have not forgotten the names of those teachers who taught me. Jacquetta
Sensenbaugh and there was Gram Carr, Molly Ruth Payne. All four of them came from here, and see,
I've had a chance to be with teachers at Knoxville College when I was there. Had a chance to be with
teachers because I got my Master’s at UT. These teachers from Swift can't be beat, couldn't be beat
nowhere. I know what I'm talking about. For fundamentals.
I knew from my dad. my dad was an old-fashioned-like, and he went to the eighth grade. And that man’s
spelling book – he called it the Blue Back Speller – some of the words in that Blue Back Speller, grades
1-through 8, I cannot pronounce – or announce, whatever you want to say, enunciate. Now, that's the
kind of education I got: foundation, if that’s what you want to know.
Well, they was down to earth, and they were so serious about children learning. Of course, you had
respect, and if you could learn, you would learn. And there wasn’t a lot of wasted time and whatnot.
They used their time wisely, and had respect for students. They also taught you manners and how to act
and a lot of other things about life. Because I wrote a poem about it before I left here. I can't remember
it, but I have it at home. It's been a long time. I was 90 years old February 7, can't remember back that
far now.
She's not quite as academic as I am, and I say that because she didn't study as hard as I did. I've always
been very serious. I was the oldest child, and I've always been serious about school, and I loved my
teachers from Rogersville so much. I wanted to be a teacher ever since I can remember. I wanted to be
an elementary teacher, but I wouldn't want to be one now because I'd be down there behind bars. I
�27
don't know about Swift, and see, I was teaching when – I don't know that much about desegregation of
Swift, per se. When desegregation took place, I was teaching in Knoxville, and I was sent to the most
prejudiced principal that they had in Knoxville. And I didn't know that till two years ago. The guy that
was Dr. Fred Bedelle who I thought had passed, called me, and he's writing a book on the desegregation
of schools in Knoxville. And he told me, he hand-picked me and sent me to Smithwood. He told me, and I
was about to hurt him. No, I didn’t. I brought the man into the twentieth century because I didn't know
any better.
I remember something about it when it was being torn down, yes. Well, times change, and it was
changing everywhere out there in the world, and in the other world, also. So, you can't get hung up with
all these changes. Well, all you got to do is sit tight, listen, learn all you can, do all you can, say all you
can, but be right and cope with it. That's the way I do life.
That it should be revered, like we're trying to do right now. needs reverence because it was a good
foundation. And I say all the time, we haven't done half-enough for the Presbyterian Church, who set up
these schools for Black children and Black folks. And I say the same thing about Rogersville; I say the
same thing about Knoxville College. We haven't paid enough homage to the Presbyterian Church for
what they've done for our race, our people.
Work, didn’t have time play much.
Not really, because I lived very close. Didn't take long to walk over here, about two or three blocks over.
I was staying with a lady, when I was here. Now, my sister was staying on campus. I just used what I had,
and it worked. and I used what my daddy gave me, what I was born with and what I taught. I was Miss
KC (Knoxville College) when I was here. Well, I had to get up and didn't have to walk far to come over
here, and we'd have assignments. And there wasn't no such thing as not coming back with your
assignments. Whatever they were, you did them. You didn't ask questions about them. You did your
assignments and brought them back the best you could. But that I was born like that: doing the best that
I can do. I'm still like that. I'm a perfectionist to an extent. Not that I am perfected, but I work toward it. I
still do. As an old lady, I still do it. That's part of me. Now, you can ask somebody else that didn't have it,
and maybe they acquired it, but I've always had it.
Well no, I didn't give that an awful lot of thought, because in those kind of days, you had no other
choice. You had no other choice. If you had assignments, you had work to do, then you did it. If you
didn't, you get consequences or get sent home, whatever it took. It's not like it is now. I'm an old lady,
and I still do the best I can do in anything I do. I don't care what it is, how simple it is. Do the best job
you can do. If I write you a letter, I want to be written correctly, written pretty, with no mistake. Now,
that's just part of me. So, you gonna have to ask somebody else them questions.
I'm just so thankful that Swift was available, that the Presbyterian Church provided schools that poor
people could afford. My dad – at the time I got here, they were charging, then, a little bit of tuition
because I'm out of the county. This is Hawkins, and I'm from Hancock, the poorest county in the 96. And
everybody else that went before me, they had to pay tuition, but when they came to my daddy home…
“If I have to pay tuition, then my county is gonna pay it,” and they did. That’s the first time the county
started paying tuition. My dad met the county courts, and while we were talking about that, we were
living in an all-white neighborhood, and kids had nowhere to go to school. And the Black kids in
Claiborne County lived just across just across the line from the Hancock boundary, and they went to
Claiborne County school. And we had nowhere to go, and my dad met the courts. He was a veteran of
�28
World War I. He told them what he had done for the country and what he deserved, and they built him a
school next to the county line, almost on the Claiborne line. Because at that time, we had about six
families in Hancock County that were going across the line to Claiborne. And that's how we got a school,
got a brand-new school, only because of my dad. Only my dad is the only one who got that done, or
tried to get it done, because they were an interesting – because we were isolated up here in the white
community.
Hoop Creek Church, it was a church and schoolhouse together. And somebody donated that church
building to the school, at that time, and then they got unhappy about it because they began to sell and
whatnot. And you had some of those religious deacons and things that don't believe in selling in the
church house. So, then, the school was moved up in the center of the Black neighborhood at Hoop
Creek, but that was before I went to school. I went to school as a third grader at Hoop Creek, and I
stayed with my Aunt Pearlie, whose momma's sister walked a mile and a half to Claiborne County, Hoop
Creek School in Claiborne County, for the first three years, I guess. two or three – no, about a couple of
years. By then, my dad had a school. They built a brand-new school right at the end of Hancock County
there. and white – we were Parkeys, and the Parkeys had a real large, large area of land and whatnot,
and they donated the land as long as we had school. For us to have a school almost on the Claiborne line
because we had those five or six families, who were on the border, who also could come to their school.
But we’re up here with the white folk, walking, bus passed right by the door, and we had to walk a mile
– over a mile, I guess. I don't know, but we were young then.
I know where Blackwater is because I had an aunt that lived up there in Blackwater – Mayor John
Livingston.
I had no pressure because I was, if I want to be frank about it, I was the better student. So, no pressure.
Now, you might ask her if she felt some pressure.
I had a nephew whose wife died when the baby was nine years old. They had four children. That was in
Knoxville, with cancer, breast cancer. Lord have mercy. And I went over there every week and worked
with his children. Taught them little fellas to read and write, and they was all over my neck, my lap, and
everywhere. Little bitty things. And started out with them, I went every week, once a week. And the first
three was fine and got them started well, and the baby was about three years behind the other ones. He
said, “Mother, when is Aunt Dessa coming over here to read to me?” Well, I taught those little bigger
ones – I taught them how to read, they can teach him how to read. So, I had to go over and work with
him. So, what I'm saying – I love school, I love learning, and I got three engineers and a nurse out of
those four kids. Three graduated from UT. Engineers and the other one is a nurse, out of his four
children. Best kids you've ever seen. Foundation that I had, that I could give them. Plus morals, good
ethics, work ethics, any other kind of ethics you want to talk about. We got them at home, taught them
at home, examples at home. So, that's the way it is.
�29
Etta Snapp-Fanny
Rogersville, Tennessee
2012
My name is Etta Snapp-Fanny. I attended Swift 1951-1955. Oh, my May Day memories… my first one, I
didn’t get to go to because I had measles. May Day means to me: friends and family and all the activities
that went on, the crowning of the king and queen, and they had a fashion show. Let’s see, what else did
they do? They had a ball game. Back in the day, when I went to school, first thing in the mornings, they
had devotion. They had songs and prayer, and they kinda had a speaker. They were good days.
�30
Imogene Trammel-Fugate
Sevierville, Tennessee
2013
IMOGENE: I went high school and finished in college. So, I was a part of the last class at Swift College. It
was 1955. I had two years of really… I really enjoyed my two years of college. It was a fun time, and we
had several guys from out of town that was in our class. So, we had a lot of fun. It was really good. Then
of course, I had… Several members of my family have been to Swift before I came along, and one sister
that was there. And it was just really enjoyable, and it was a foundation for the rest of my life. I can look
at the schools, the high schools, and all that – that I have attended their graduations and all – is so
different than what we went through because now they can wear any kind of shoes, flip flops or
anything. We had to wear.. The women, ladies, had to wear pumps, and the men had to wear shoes –
nice, shiny shoes – and shirt and tie. Now they come the way they want to. And I just recently went to
my granddaughter's graduation, and just to see the difference in the way they acted at the graduation
and everything, and thinking back to the way we did at Swift, it makes you very thankful. And the
respect that we knew to give people, especially elderly people and all, I mean it's just so different now
than it was, back when we were at Swift. So, as the years go by and the more you hear about Swift, it
makes you very thankful to have been a part of it.
IMOGENE: Having the experience of two years of college right at your hometown, that was a that was a
blessing.
MARY FAE: Well, they [people who went to be in military service] just came back in and fit in because
they were on the football team and basketball team, and they just came back like heroes, as far as we
were concerned. I mean the girls, you know. We just kind of looked up to them.
IMOGENE: I just wish that they hadn’t have been… I wish they had… It would be so nice if it was still
there because I would like for my children to have had the same experience that I had, going to Swift
and being part of it.
MARY FAE: And too, then you think that if it had stayed that, eventually, it would have been a four-year
college. That's what I think.
IMOGENE: I have heard so many Whites, people that are in the community, they're sorry now that they
took it down. Because it would have been a help for both races. I know a lady that I exercise with, she
and her husband, when she came to the Museum and saw the mural on the wall of the School… She had
tears in her eyes because she said, “Oh”… because she remembered it because she grew up in
Rogersville. And then moved away, but recently she has come back. And she saw that, and it just
overwhelmed her.
MARY FAE: It would have been an asset to Rogersville for it to have stayed because I think it would have
continued to have grown. And then you’d have more people coming in, and it would’ve gotten bigger.
IMOGENE: It closed in ‘63 because my sister went there. I think she graduated in ’63 from the high
school.
MARY FAE: They must have torn it down … but you have so many people that just don't take interest in
it because like Nelson Merry, are you familiar with that? I mean it's just sitting there. Nobody is doing
�31
anything. And it was so strange… I used to teach it a little school down in, you know, well, it was
considered as Sevier County, but it was sort of right at the point. It was a little one-room school, and
they went in there… I don't know when or what. That school is gone. I mean there's nothing there but
just land. They just tore it down. And you know, they should have kept it because one-room schools you
don't see them anymore. I mean they really go down in history, especially with that one because before
I started there, they were having trouble with a little White girl that they wanted to attend. And she
eventually came and started going to school there. That was sort of at the beginning of Integration. But
when I went down in there and saw it gone, I couldn’t believe it.
IMOGENE: We lived out, and we were bussed in. Before we were bussed in, we were cabbed in. Sent a
cab out to bring us into town. It's part of Hawkins County, but it's out. Anyway, when we were in grade
school, we were in between Rogersville and Surgoinsville. So, we could have gone to Surgoinsville, or we
could have gone to Hawkins County. But by the time we were little, we had older brothers that were
already in Hawkins County, and they were driving to there. So, we all, the younger ones, all went to Price
Public. So, we didn’t have to go to Surgoinsville.
MARY FAE: Dandridge. Because well, my mother and father went there, and uncles and cousins and just
about everybody that started out in college went up there. So that’s how. The time come for me, and
they shipped me up there. I stayed on campus. Like if you were dating, and on Sunday was the only time
that you could have a date to come to see you, and we had to go in the chapel. We would have… The
teachers would have to sit out in the hall, and you know how chapels was, like church benches. And
you'd have your little friend on the church bench, and that would be the only way you could talk to him.
I mean, you know, you better not try to kiss or nothing because if you did, they would call you out. I
remember that, and you couldn't come down until they called you. You know, you couldn't be loitering
around in the hall. So, they would call, like, “Mary Fae!” and you would go. And there would be your
date down at the foot of the steps, and you would go in the chapel. About 30 minutes, you might sit in
there and talk to him, and that was on Sunday. So, I had some good times there, real good times. But it
was like a family though. Very strict, which makes you appreciate things down through life for being as
strict as it was. Although we had some that was a little on the wild side, but most of them followed
orders. It was just a good atmosphere.
MARY FAE: And see, like, in Rogersville, the people that live there probably never would have gone to
college if the school hadn't been there because they wouldn't have ventured out anywhere else. But by
being there and being local, and at that time tuition wasn’t that high. You know, you could go very
easily. Plus, the fact, I’m sure, that the County paid something for them to come. So, it has helped a
whole lot of people.
�32
Josephine Snapp-Francisco-Willis
Rogersville, Tennessee
2012
I graduated in 1957. There was no integration at the time I was going.
Yes, I do. On the first day of May, everyone would dress up and go to the May Day activities and stay all
day long. We had the wrapping of the Maypole, and we would make things in school. Ms. Price was our
teacher, and she would have us to make clothes and stuff. Everything we would make, we would go out
and wear it. Then, we had some dance and games, and we just had a great time.
Well, my friends. I had lots of friends. Yes, I did. … Let’s see. Dorothy and Patricia, and also …. We ran
together a lot too.
It’s the background of our learning. They really were serious about what we learned and how they
taught us. Lots of times, we got some of the old books that other schools, the white schools, they would
send the old books. Some were tattered and torn, and we had to make due. …. We did learn, and our
parents stood behind us. And the teachers, if anything we did wrong, they would tell our parents. And so
it was really a great time because everybody was interested in every child. And that’s what I liked about
it. I didn’t really at that time, but I appreciate it now that the teachers were just as intricate at the
parents were. I learned … and when I went to Morristown College …. So, I really enjoyed school. ….
Easy because of the background I had up here at Swift.
Well, we’re trying to keep it going. We’re trying to keep everything… kind of like, we have our reunions
and everything so we can. Lots of older people that went to Swift, I don’t remember. I was in high
school, and they took Swift away. But now, my sisters … that’s why I go, to be with my sisters and some
of their friends and my family. I enjoy that legacy of getting together because it used to be, and we’re
moving forward now. And we would like more younger people to join us too because we have … she’s
like you, she’s not used to that. She’s always been in integration. She doesn’t know anything about the
all Black schools, and neither do you. So we would like for you all, too, to sometimes join in with us …
how important it is to remember the legacy of the schools …
�Lester Lamon
Knoxville, Tennessee
2013
33
My name is Lester Lamon and I'm a native of Maryville and grew up in East Tennessee. Well,
the Swift story, that I know, is the early part of the story. I don't know a lot about its founding, but
I know the context from which it came and the person who was the founder and the original
head I believe, perhaps principal, was his title, was a man named William Henderson Franklin.
And Franklin was the first official Black graduate of Maryville college when Maryville College
was reopened after the Civil War.
The college was destroyed in the war and while it had been founded in 1819, it reopened on a
shoestring. Its facilities were gutted by the Union and Confederate troops that had occupied the
area. Its students had all disappeared. There were a couple of its former professors who were
around and especially one of them professor Lamar was very anxious to reestablish this
college. But the problem was, the college didn’t have any money. And so he was looking for
funds. There was a Presbyterian school. He was looking for funds from within the Presbyterian
Church, from large philanthropists. Remember in the late 19th century, America was
industrializing and there was a wealthy class that was emerging and a number of these had
strong Presbyterian backgrounds. And Lamar was looking for them for support, but he also
realized that there was the potential for money from the federal government during
Reconstruction.
No one was clear exactly what reconstruction meant, not just in East Tennessee or Tennessee.
No one clearly understood what that term meant, as it would apply to the states after the war
itself was over. And so, with federal involvement in the South, Russell Lamar realized that
there's a possibility of getting federal help and the primary source of federal investment or
expenditure in the South after the war was over, during Reconstruction, was something called
the Freedmen's Bureau. The Freedmen's Bureau, headed by a former Union general named
general O.O. Howard. Howard had actually spent a good bit of time in East Tennessee, by
bringing his troops to the aid of General Burnside in the siege of Knoxville. And so he was quite
familiar with East Tennessee and especially with Blount County. His headquarters at one point
had been in the Southern part of Blount County. So Lamar made contact with him and the
money that Howard had and the interest that Howard had, through the Freedmen's Bureau was
for the education of the former slaves. So if Maryville College was going to receive any federal
money from the Freedmen's Bureau it would have to be with the promise of educating the
former slaves. Now the Freedmen or our Black citizens, new Black citizens.
Well, Maryville had an interesting history prior to the Civil War. I won't say it was abolitionist, but
it had a strong anti-slavery background. There had been former slaves that had been educated
there with whites, not graduating with degrees, but they'd been educated there as Presbyterian
ministers and some of them had gone on to do missionary work. I think of George Erskine and a
number of others who had gone on to do missionary work for the Presbyterian Church, so it had
an interesting, what we would consider for its time, liberal attitude toward race. Paternalistic, not
egalitarian, but open to the education of Blacks as well as whites particularly within the context
of the Christian ministry. When Maryville opened after the Civil War, during Reconstruction, it I
think probably, professor Lamar and the others that that were responsible for it, just assumed
that the end of the war and the abolition of slavery meant that things would be different. It wasn't
clear how different they would be or in what ways they would be different, but they would be
�34
different. And that these former slaves, now freedmen, soon-to-be citizens should be educated.
Should have the opportunity for education, as well as whites and if the end of slavery was going
to mean truly reconstructing Southern society then the potential to have meaningful interracial
reconstruction was there and the people at Maryville college were willing to do it.
And one of the first students to come when marival reopened its doors was William Henderson
Franklin, a Black man. I frankly don't know his early history, until he became a student. And
when he became a student there, he was obviously a very bright individual and he participated
in the full life of Maryville College. He did not have to live in a segregated environment. He didn't
have to sit in a separate place in the room. He joined the clubs and societies and I think there
was something called the “Reckless Baseball Team” that he participated in. And so he was an
active, and though he undoubtedly did would run into prejudice and would run into some
discrimination, there was nothing official on the college’s part. And so Franklin stayed at
Maryville College until he graduated. He was the first Black student to receive a baccalaureate
degree at Maryville College. And he went on into the Presbyterian ministry. And he took that
commitment to the ministry and to education with him in the founding of Swift. What was, I
believe, Swift Memorial Institute at the time.
That became his mission to provide education and support to African American children.
Because what he could see around him, was that Tennessee was not rising to that
responsibility, in terms of public education. Public education was anemic, I think we would say,
throughout the state. But if you have limited resources and limited commitment and you also
have discrimination, then the Black public schools are going to be even more anemic. There will
be fewer of them, shorter school terms, less prepared teachers and so what Franklin was
seeking to do ,as I understand it, was as a Black man within the Presbyterian Church to take
that responsibility to provide those kinds of resources so that the freedmen the children of
freedmen who attended that institution would be able to have access to a life based on
education and support
Now, Franklin continued to have a strong relationship to Maryville College, even sitting on the
Maryland College Board of Directors in the late 1890’s. He received an honorary Doctorate from
Maryville College, interestingly right before Maryville College had to refuse to accept any more
Black students. It was almost like the faculty at Maryville College were signing off on this period
of their development. They didn't choose to do this. The Tennessee legislature in 1901 passed a
law saying that there should be no co-education of the races in the state of Tennessee private
or public schools. The public schools had been that way ever since the new constitution of
Tennessee was written during Reconstruction. But private schools like Maryville College could
do that. And some of the places like Fisk University and others white students might be
educated with Black students there. But at any rate Maryville had to stop their practice and at
the time that they did it's almost like they were saying to Franklin you are sort of the icing on that
the cake of that period. And we are now having to close that off and we're giving you an
honorary Doctorate. And the process for your outstanding work and the fact that you represent
our most outstanding Black graduate. Although they had several other outstanding Black
graduates, as well. One of which became a bishop of the AME Zion Church, for example. A man
named Paris Wallace.
Well at any rate, when Maryville had to no longer educate Blacks, you can see it presented an
ethical, if not a legal problem because they had accepted federal dollars during Reconstruction
on the grounds that they would educate African Americans too. Now they could no longer do
�that. Were they going to keep those dollars in their endowment? Perhaps they could have
gotten away with it, but they did not ethically feel that that was the thing to do, since they could
no longer fulfill the promise that they made when they received those dollars. And so when the
new policy came into effect, the Board of Directors voted to give twenty five thousand dollars,
which was one quarter of their entire endowment. Tiny endowment. They ended up giving that
twenty five thousand dollars to Swift Memorial Institute. Because of the work that they were
doing to educate Blacks there and undoubtedly did it because of the connection with William
Henderson Franklin.
35
Throughout the South in the years before the Civil War, when the most common experience for
African Americans was slavery, there were almost no formal opportunities for education.
Education that slaves received or if they were freed, they received from private sources. And the
kind of education that we talked about or have talked about with regard to Maryville College,
they were informally students, Black/African-Americans were students there. They were often
educated by, if they had a master or a patron in the community, they might receive education,
but eventually it became illegal to educate slaves because there was the concern that if the
slave was able to read he or she would be able to read anti-slavery literature. Because the
abolitionists in the North were indeed spending a lot of time and effort to promote opposition to
slavery in the South and there were any number of cases in Tennessee, as well as elsewhere in
the South, where these abolitionists missionaries or publicist would be arrested for handing out
anti-slavery literature. And so to keep slaves, the idea was to keep a slave ignorant of his or her
condition, then they're more likely to be a pacified slave. But if they knew, Frederick Douglass
speaks of this in his autobiography many times and I'm sure many elementary and high school
students have read or are familiar with Frederick Douglass's autobiography. But he talks in there
about the revelation when he learned to read that this was the thing that he would never,
couldn’t be a slave again once he realized he had the capacity to know what was outside. His
freedom could never be denied him again. And he of course from that time on became a
dissatisfied slave, made the effort to escape on many occasions. That's the very thing that
legislators and others in the South would, in Tennessee and elsewhere in the South, would want
to try to prevent happening. And so educational opportunities were incredibly limited before the
Civil War.
I mean first of all, there was very little public education in the South of any kind. And so it was
private, but it became a crime to educate Blacks eventually. And so the opportunities would
have been, they would have been ones that would have been under the table, covert and very
difficult to obtain. Reconstruction, what did it mean? It wasn't clear what reconstruction meant to
Abraham Lincoln or Andrew Johnson or the radicals in Congress. It was clear that the South
wanted as little change as possible, so the real question out there was, “How much will and how
much determination would there be to change the racial makeup of the South after the end of
slavery? And for maybe ten years, the North looked like it was going to impose some significant
change on the South. You have the 13th amendment, which was passed in 1865 which
abolished slavery. There shall no longer be slavery in the United States. You have the 14th
amendment which established civil rights for the former slaves. You had the 15th amendment
which provided the right to vote for the former slaves.
Then the question is, would we enforce those? And it's not at all clear that there was a will or the
determination in the north to enforce them. I think the people in the South, the people at
Maryville College, they didn't know what it meant. So they were willing to take a chance. Where
could they get funds to start their college? They were willing to say, alright this is a meaningful
reconstruction and we'll change it. Most people in the South didn't want to do that. They wanted
�36
to resist it and they did resist it. You find many instances in which the slave owners don't even
free their slaves until finally the federal troops forced them to free their slaves. They certainly
don't provide equal civil rights, because you have the imposition of Black Codes throughout the
South and especially you see it in Tennessee.
The right to vote. There are all kinds of ways in which Blacks were denied the right to vote, but
these were informal and legally they couldn't do that. The question is: What would that mean in
practice? And over time, the late 1870s, 1880s, 1890s it became clear that the North was
through with reconstruction. It wasn't going to enforce it and the Supreme Court backed that up
In 1881, the Supreme Court said individuals can discriminate on the basis of race. Only states
can't discriminate on the basis of race. In those cases of 1881, then so, private individuals
could. Then we get the famous Plessy vs. Ferguson decision in the 1890s that says, “Even
states can discriminate as long as it's separate, as long as its equal, it can be separate.” In that
period of 20 years then, the various states in the South, including Tennessee, put in place a
variety of statutes which created, on the one hand we would call it segregation. We've come to
use the word Jim Crow. In other words, it created two separate legal environments for Blacks
and whites. It didn't have to be that way. Reconstruction could have made it different.
Reconstruction didn't make it different. And so the South settled into a biracial society that was
unequal and that was separated by law.
States could do that, as they develop public schools. But what about private individuals or
private organizations which wanted to conduct their activities without discrimination and do it in
a biracial or integrated fashion? Well, there weren't very many of them, but we had one here in
Maryville which was Maryville College. Are you going to allow that exception when you have
said that there can be no co-education of the races in public schools? Are you going to allow
private schools to do that? If you're saying that all society has to be divided, that Blacks can't
ride even in the same railroad car or streetcar and you're going to say that Blacks can't vote.
Blacks can't hold office. Blacks can't eat in the same restaurants. Blacks can't can't use the
same facilities. And you're gonna make public laws about this and public accommodations. Are
you going to allow private individuals on their private property to be exceptions to that? Well
that's what Maryville College was.
And so in 1901, the state legislature passed a law saying that even private organizations could
not provide education to Blacks and whites in the same environment. Now the story as to why
that came about, there was a lot of dissension at Maryville among some, many, of the students.
As this period of Jim Crow began to take place in the 80s and 90s, many of the students in
Maryville didn't like the fact that there were Blacks there. That was bumping up against the trend
in race relations in the South. And so they didn't want Blacks like William Henderson Franklin
who had participated in social and literary clubs and the baseball team. They didn't want Blacks
participating in those, in those organizations at the college. If they were going to be there they
didn't want to associate with them in that way. Even in Maryville, the minister of the largest
Presbyterian Church began to argue that this is an inappropriate thing at a Presbyterian school
in the South. One of the leading figures at the college and a graduate of the college, who
happened to have been in the legislature, probably a pretty powerful politician, was opposed to
them continuing to educate Blacks and whites. The law itself was known as the Murphy law it
was introduced by, I believe, a state senator from Knoxville. But there was a great deal of
division about whether this should continue within college and even within the city of Maryville.
And so that was sort of the context at which this law was introduced at the behest of these
dissenters. And it was forced upon the faculty and administration of the college.
�37
With the end of the Civil War and the freeing of those who had been slaves, who now became
freed men and women and their children became free, one of the biggest handicaps in being
able to succeed as a free person and a citizen was the lack of education. If you did not have the
ability to read and write and understand contracts and understand the things in an average
person's life that involve reading and knowledge, then you're always going to be at the bottom of
the heap. You're going to have difficulty succeeding financially, socially, culturally. And so a
situation in which there is no public schooling, or if there is public schooling it is public schools
for whites only, leaves a small population of residents and citizens without the benefits that
education gives to a successful life. In East Tennessee, you had a small Black population. It had
been extremely important over the years, but it had been small. Tennessee grew from the east
to the west, and so the oldest towns and the oldest communities were in the East. Many of the
citizens, the frontiersman, the Davy Crockett's and Samuel Doakes and others who came over
the mountains brought slaves with them. While some of those slaves moved on or were sold,
others stayed. And so when the war was over you have a small but very established Black
community in East Tennessee.
When you take a hard-pressed community, hard-pressed financially and they are trying to build
schools to pay teachers and particularly if they don't view Blacks and whites as equals in the
first place ,what is their priority going to be? It's going to be to provide white schools first and if
you've got 300 white students living in Hawkins County and 18 Black students living in Hawkins
County, you're not likely to spend your money on those 18 you're going to spend it on those
300. So those 18 ended up fending for themselves and if those people in control those people
who ran the county, didn't really think Blacks were particularly important anyway, then they're
going to be left for decades with either minimal or no education. The only way in which that
problem is likely to be addressed is through private or missionary kinds of organizations.
And it's my understanding that the Swift Memorial Institute was supported by the Presbyterian
Church and it was a private, I think initially, boarding school for Blacks because if you're
scattered out, you can't very well walk 20 miles or 30 miles to school every day. It's a way of
bringing folks together, providing them with not only the education, but also the kind of cultural
support that rural poor Black children would not otherwise have. I think it's amazing honestly
that Swift is still a part of the community. You had many efforts made to start schools. You had,
oftentimes, they were called Yankee missionaries that were coming from the north to come
down to provide education. You had schools started all over the state of Tennessee, all over the
South. And many of them might not last more than one term. Many more of them might not last
more than ten years. By 1900, there weren't very many of them left, that were still going
because they were expensive. And then public education eventually came in and there was
more, if not equal educational opportunities available. So the fact that Swift not only met that
early need, but it continued to meet the need during the period of Jim Crow is quite significant.
I don't know the financial resources, the source of the resources, that allowed Swift to do that
but it is an institution that needs to be cherished. It's not unlike, I think, the situation today is that
for Swift it's not unlike that we think of all the historically Black colleges and universities. When
schools were segregated, the separate Black schools were the only avenue for Blacks to
achieve higher education. And from that we have some of our major leaders around the country
and Supreme Court justices and and industrial leaders and doctors and lawyers and people that
have just been extremely important in our nation's history. Then we come along with the Brown
versus Board of Education decision in 1954 and we're saying that white institutions can now no
�38
longer discriminate against Black students. And many of those are public institutions like the
University of Tennessee and they're much cheaper than the private institutions are. The private
colleges and many students choose the cheaper route to go and it's made it very hard for these
Black institutions to continue, but they have an unbelievably important historical role and
probably have today still a critical role to play in demonstrating what individuals can do for
themselves when they are denied equal public support. It shouldn't have to come down to that,
but it is a source of both pride and accomplishment and contribution that these institutions such
as Swift continue to make in our society. There not as many of them as there used to be it's
something to be proud of and cherished.
East Tennessee had an abolitionist, more accurate probably, anti-slavery history that is often
overlooked. I think you did have genuine abolitionist people who wanted to abolish the institution
of slavery for a variety of reasons, but mostly these were folks that either for religious reasons
generally either that from Quaker background or to some degree Presbyterian background felt
that slavery was a moral wrong. And it was not only a moral wrong and visited upon the Black
slave but it was undermining the salvation of the white slave owner, as well. And so you had in
northern East Tennessee in Greene, in Washington County, you had a number of active anti
slave societies. Benjamin Lundy comes to mind. John Rankin comes to mind. They published
newspapers and generally agitated against slavery. Now you had a similar but somewhat a
milder version of anti-slavery in and around Maryville, mostly folks associated with Maryville
college. They were also anti-slavery and yet the folks around Maryville were a little more open
to ways of ending slavery rather than just abolishing slavery. Manumission, colonization, there
were other avenues in which they were looking to phase it out. I'm not sure either group, the
abolitionist group that were in Washington and Greene County or the anti-slavery group around
Maryville, would have been racial egalitarians. In other words, that they saw Blacks and whites
as equal, but they did see Blacks as human beings capable of all the rights and privileges and
god-given rights as whites. They agitated pretty strongly in the early, well let's say, the 1820s
and then own up into the early 30s.
The high point of the anti-slavery movement in Tennessee actually occurred in the Tennessee
constitutional convention I believe this was in 1834. There was a big push to bring about a
movement to gradually end slavery constitutionally in that convention. Almost all of the
supporters were from East Tennessee, but at that point the population was skewed toward East
Tennessee and Middle Tennessee anyway because the population hadn't moved as far west at
that time. All right it wasn't a heavy population west of Nashville, at that time and so there was a
fairly close effort to abolish it, but that movement failed in 1834. And when it failed the backlash
began. And the the persecution and the legal prosecution of those who were agitating against
slavery sped up. The end result is that most of those folks in Greene and Washington County
left. John Rankin, for example, went to Ohio. And if you've ever been to Ripley, Ohio there's the
famous John Rankin house sitting up on the hill which was one of the beacons of runaway
slaves. It's there and it's a wonderful monument, testimony. Well that was the John Rankin that
lived, I believe, in Dandridge perhaps. I'm not sure exactly where but somewhere here in East
Tennessee. He left and to do that, a Presbyterian minister the. The folks in Maryville began to
tone down their agitation and they became more, I think what we would call colonizationists.
They were opposed to slavery but they said the social crisis that would occur if you freed the
slaves and they stayed in the South, would because they could not be assimilated they were not
socially equal and all this kind of stuff therefore they would have to be colonized elsewhere. And
it was that part of that colonization movement that created the colony of Liberia and ultimately
the country of Liberia today. And many of the slaves not just from Tennessee but from
�39
elsewhere through the American Colonization Society, the early residents of Liberia came from
the United States. So you have that kind of anti slave background in East Tennessee, that's
where the primary anti slave movement in Tennessee came from. After 1834 it began to
diminish steadily and became, for reasons of safety and all, it became less safe for whites to
take that opposition position.
Tennessee, as we probably all know from our early elementary school, Tennessee history
began as a part of North Carolina. You know it was across the Appalachians, North Carolina,
the western boundary of North Carolina was unclear when the American Revolution was over.
And so colonists have begun to push their way across the Appalachians. They came down the
Tennessee Valley, the Holston and French Broad river valleys into East Tennessee. Most of
them came from North Carolina. They came from Virginia. They came from Pennsylvania. Many
of them were immigrants. As they came, particularly those from Virginia, many of them brought
slaves with them. Even some of the earliest explorers, the frontiersman, actually had slaves in
their party. But so from the very first people who came in, other than the Native Americans who
were here, there were slaves. In Black America Black Africans at the time were a part of that
experience, but as they were, most of them were slaves and they belonged to some of those
early settlers. And as early settlers came in, they were having to clear the land. If you look
around us in East Tennessee, you've got hills and you've got valleys and you've got lots of trees
you don't have big wide-open flat farms unless you happen to be right along the river
somewhere. And so most of the people had small farms. They didn't need, couldn't afford and
probably had no more than, you know, one or two or maybe three or four slaves that work for
them. And those slaves lived right with the white family that owned them. They worked as hired
hands really even though they were owned. They ate the same food. They slept in the same
environment. They worked with the same animals. They drank from the same streams. These
were early settlers, they just happened to be owned and their labor and activities were directed
by their owners. They weren't free to move about themselves and so in East Tennessee mostly
because of the nature of the terrain, the way in which people made a living. . . the Blacks that
were here lived in small groups. Now you had them down along the Little River and the little
Tennessee River and further South and a little of the Tennessee River. You had some bottom
lands in which large farms or maybe even we might call them plantations developed. And you
might have 2250 slaves there, but that would be very much the exception in East Tennessee.
So the population would have been small. The white population would have been much larger
than the Black population, because most people could not afford or didn't need to have slaves
working for them. They worked their farms themselves or their small businesses or whatever
they developed.
But as you move west, as you move across the Cumberland Plateau, the land flattens out and
when you do that you have the opportunity for crops on a much larger scale. Your corn fields
can be big corn fields. You'll perhaps have the opportunity even to plant cotton. You have iron
deposits and you have coal and you have the opportunity to develop foundries. And you have
navigable rivers with the Cumberland and the Tennessee, so that if you make crops in bulk you
can ship them out. That was always the problem in East Tennessee, because of the shoals and
all in the river, of the Tennessee River. It was hard to use the Tennessee River to ship crops out
and you had to go over the Appalachians. You didn't have roads. It wasn't easy to do, but when
you moved west and you had navigable rivers that would take you out ultimately to the Ohio into
the Mississippi and the Gulf of Mexico, you can grow crops or you can have iron ore and other
things heavy items that you can ship by boat. When you do that, you have the need of more
labor and so this opportunity for easier land to cultivate and the need for labor and a relatively
�40
small white population meant you had to have some other source of labor. And so slavery was,
in the South the way in which that labour factor of production was often provided when large
gangs of workers were needed. And so, as you moved into East to Middle Tennessee around
Nashville around Franklin, in that area, you are on, even up into Clarksville, if you get to the
northern part of the state, of the middle part of the state, large gangs of slaves could be
profitable. And so you have a larger Black population.
Now you still have a lot of regular contacts between Blacks and whites. And in and around
Nashville, you have a significant free Black population. Oftentimes, those free Blacks were
relatives, they were blood relatives to some of the major white families there as well. And you
had a sizable free Black population in Knoxville - they often had better access to education,
better access to keeping money that they might earn and tended to be a little bit better off than
the rural Black population would be, and that particularly if they were slaves. So in Middle
Tennessee land flattens out, the need for more labor and larger slave populations.
Now you move west of the Tennessee River and you move toward Memphis. And really, you're
in an environment that's not unlike the Mississippi Delta. It's prime cotton land. It develops
almost exclusively in large plantation tracts. You don't have the small subsistence farmer that
you had in East Tennessee that might only need one or two slaves. And in this case you have
large plantations, large farms perhaps hundreds, but perhaps thousands of acres really in which
cotton is the dominant crop. And in this instance, you may have hundreds of slaves working on
individual plantations and there might be, at most, one white family. And that white family might
even be in absentia and it's run by a white overseer. So you, instead of having in East
Tennessee where whites and Blacks sort of lived amongst each other, even if one was slave
and one was owner and the other was, not in Middle Tennessee, you're transitioning to where
you've got a mixture. And then in West Tennessee, you've got slaves living and like you can
take Fayette and Haywood Counties. Haywood County, for example, maybe 70 or 80 % of the
population was enslaved. So that you have a Black experience there is the stereotyped Black
experience that we think about with the slave cabins and the absentee white leaders and the
gang labor and working in the cotton fields. Whereas in Middle Tennessee it's kind of diverse.
There's some of that in the iron foundries and there's even a sizable free Black population in the
urban area of Nashville. And then you get into East Tennessee in which that experience is
pretty rare and it's mostly an inter, not equal. And I want to emphasize that not on an equal
basis, but there's a more intimate interactivity among whites and Blacks in East Tennessee than
you have in West Tennessee.
If no one questions whether Blacks and whites do things together or interact. If no one calls
attention to the fact that one person is white and one person is Black, it generally doesn't matter
to us. It's only when it becomes an issue and the things that make it now and in the past an
issue, so often involve money or politics or someone's self-interest. In the early days of
Tennessee's history it was kind of understood by whites that the Black position in America was
a subordinate position. But as long as that wasn't challenged, people could relate to each other
as individuals. And if you work together in the same fields, if you worked and maybe even ate at
the same table, you got to know each other as individuals. And as long as no one called that
into question you got along okay. But if someone outside or that person that is subordinate
decides that they don't want to remain subordinate, calls it into question, how are you going to
deal with that. And it then becomes the crisis in East Tennessee because of the relatively small
Black population, these issues rarely got called into question. They did sometimes and there
was interracial difficulty when that happened, but let's take Maryville College as the example
�41
again. If no one called Maryville’s practice of allowing Blacks and whites to attend college
together into question, they would have probably continued it on as it was forever. But because
race relations in the South were being called into question, once slavery was ended.. As long as
it was this understood position that whites were masters and Blacks were slaves, everybody
knew their place. You free the slaves, now nobody knows what the relationship is and what the
new place is.
During Reconstruction we thought we were going to reconstruct what a new society without
slavery would be. Turned out we didn't do very much and it was pretty much left to the people to
sort out for themselves. And the South, including Tennessee, sorted it out based on white
power. The whites had the power; economic power, political power and authority. They had the
majority of the population. They were the ones who had been most discomforted by the abolition
of slavery, so if slavery was illegal and they couldn't have slavery, they had to reinstitute some
kind of superior/subordinate relationship and that was segregation. Segregation based on Jim
Crow laws. Laws that forced it and so if there were going to be folks who didn't behave in this
new superior/inferior structure, they had to be brought into line. Because if they didn't accept it
they were like a chink in the armor. You couldn't count on a new racial relationship if not
everybody adhered to it. And so when you put the laws in effect, you couldn't even allow some
little school like Maryville College with its 15 Black students to continue to do that, because if
they could get by with it then somebody else could get by with it and so you had to pass the
Marshall college law in 1901 to abolish that one chink in your segregation armor.
So I think, those relationships that we're talking about here are ones that depend on race being
called into question. And race was called into question regularly in the South throughout the
1890s in the early part of the 20th century. It was called into question through lynching. It was
called into question through race riots. And it was called into question through legislation. And
the pressure was put on African-Americans to decide how they would respond to an
increasingly oppressive environment. And that would apply to Knoxville in East Tennessee. It
would apply to Hawkins County. It would apply to Maryville, Tennessee. Even though there
weren't many Black people living in those communities, they couldn't be allowed to deviate from
the norm because they would be chinks in the armor of this new racial structure.
It's because in this superior/inferior official set of race relations, Blacks had to define or had to
decide really how they would go. Would they challenge it or would they try to build their own
institutions in that separate world that had been fostered upon them? Well they have a limited
range of areas of that they can control in their lives, but the church is one of those and so you
have some very powerful organized churches and church organizations.
Okay two things: Are you familiar with the Church of God in Christ or the COGC Church founded
in Memphis. It may be, maybe, one of the largest Protestant denominations right now. It's
certainly, they'll operate the largest Black denomination or second largest. It was founded in
Memphis at the beginning of the 20th century. It's a Pentecostal Church. It's you've, probably all
seen the, you know, when Martin Luther King, the night before he was killed he did his
mountaintop speech and he was at Mason Temple in Memphis, that's the headquarters of the
Church of God in Christ. That's where that or that is that congregation came out of a separate
Black Pentecostal movement and it's founded in Tennessee.
The other area that I think is interesting is in Nashville in the early 20th century you had the
publishing boards for all the Black Baptist churches in the country. The National Baptist
�42
Publishing Board. It was an interesting story there. It's split and so you have two separate
publishing boards. The money that was generated from that business enterprise, I talked about
in the other book the bigger book that you've got. I don't know whether they're still there. I really
don't know whether it's still there or not but it's an interesting story, because the publishing
center of the network of the Baptist's Black Baptist in the country. So you've got the center of
Black Pentecostalism in Memphis and you got the center of Black Baptists which are the two
biggest denominations in the country in Nashville. They come out of this same period of
segregation where Blacks are taking control of what part of the segregated environment they
can control and develop and manage for themselves. Now that's to me that's Black history that's
how it's not necessarily integrated history but it's how they deal with segregation. The Boyd
family of the National publishing board and the Mason family, Masons for (COGC) for Church of
God in Christ and the Boyd's in Nashville with the National Baptist publishing Board. Those are
the two families. They became wealthy, prominent families and used their money for founding
banks and all kinds of things.
Charles Cansler is an interesting man and I wrote an article about him, at one point. His ties to
Knoxville College and his ties to public education in Tennessee at the very beginning of public
education, plus the fact he was he was kind of a mathematical savant. He used to, as an early
kid you know, they'd throw, you know, multiply 1444 by 1999 and he'd immediately tell you what
it was.
�43
Lois Goins
Sevierville, Tennessee
2013
I attended Swift year ’43-’44. I attended Swift because my sister had attended, and she enjoyed it
immensely. So, I wanted to go. I enjoyed Swift because that’s the first time I had been away from home.
I was 17 years old, and I just wanted to be away from home. She had talked to much about Swift, but I
kind of got home sick and wanted to come home. I almost did there, one year. But I enjoyed it. I enjoyed
the family style meals we had, the white linen tablecloths and the white napkins. Although the food
wasn’t all that good, but I just enjoyed the fellowship with the people.
Each person, regardless of the status of your condition, you had a task to do, and my roommate had a
task of checking the alarms. And she had to get up every so often during the night and go down and
check the clock. And then, I would get up with her, and that was – I had two tasks: going down with her,
then I had a task in the dining hall. See, she couldn’t help me in the dining hall. I had to go down, during
the night, and check with her and go around the clock. I had forgotten how many places we had to
check, but that was one of the duties that the College had for the children to do.
Yes, but they didn’t last that long.
Did you have any tasks to do? Checking the clocks?
Yes, that clock checking was something else. Getting up at 2. Getting up at 4. Make those rounds. You
didn’t make them by yourself if you didn’t have anybody to go with you. I never did choose to do that
round, but my roommate did, and I had to go with her.
Togetherness. I never seen so much togetherness. Everybody loved each other. Whenever they see each
other down there, love one another. Togetherness.
Upon graduating from KC, I went to Sulphur Hollow. Hancock County at the school that was called
Sulphur Hollow. [I taught there from] ’47-’48. I enjoyed those children. They were a wonderful bunch of
children.
Yes [I came from Knoxville], and I lived with her Uncle. Her brother was my classmate. He was the only
boy in my freshman class, ‘43-’44. During the times of war, men were scarce. Earnest was the only one,
the only male, in the freshman class. In the sophomore class, there was Tommy Moore. He was the only
one in the freshman. Maybe by the time he got to be a sophomore, Tommy Moore had finished. There
was only 2 boys in the College Department during the time I was there, ’43-’44.
�44
Lollie Mae McKinney-Surratt
Sevierville, Tennessee
2013
I went to Swift in the year of 1948-49. I’m from Johnson City, Tennessee by way of Chesnee, South
Carolina. My mother was a 6th grade teacher, I mean, a 6th grade student in South Carolina, which was
equivalent to a teacher, and her one dream was to educate her family. So, I kind of cut my teeth on the
word education. I lived in Chesnee for the first eight years of my life, and my father was a World War I
veteran. In 1935, the year that he was promised his bonus, she said that she wanted to move us to
Johnson City where we could get an education, which she did. And it was sort of confusing to me
because what I heard was “boneless,” and I wondered how in heaven’s name I would get from Chesnee
to Johnson City on a boneless because I just did not understand the word “bonus.” But anyway, I did
come to Johnson City, and I attended the school there and later, Langston. And at Langston, there was a
principal, Daniel Armstrong, who had taught at Swift College. He encouraged, and some of the other
teachers there, encouraged my brother to go to Swift College, and so, he did attend. The last two
years… He later attended A&I State; it was A&I NI State College then. His last year there, he says, “If you
wait until I graduate from college, I will send you to college,” and I thought, “Yeah, right.” Anyway, when
he finished, I stayed out my year. Successfully managed to keep my life intact. He did send me to
college, but he sent me to Morristown, and that's where I met, I guess, Dessa. I was at Morristown my
freshman year, and then when I went to Swift my sophomore year, she was there. So, I was thoroughly
confused when I started coming to the Swift College reunions because I knew her, but I couldn't figure
out from where.
When the year that I went to… the year before I went to Swift, there was a minister at the Presbyterian
Church that suggested that I go to do Bible school workshops and other things. That way I would sort of
get a feel for going to college, and I went to a Holiness Church. I didn't go to Presbyterian. We just went
to Bible school everywhere, but when my brother was at Swift, when he came home, they had programs
that the choir came to sing and other activities. The children would always come and eat at our house.
So, I just enjoyed all of those activities. So, that sort of inspired me to – well, that further inspired me –
to go to Swift. I went to Morristown, and I liked Morristown fine. But I thought… Well, I guess I might
have been just wanting some adventure, also. I said, “Well I think I’d just like to go to Swift, too.” So, I
did. My job at Morristown had been, I had to sweep down three flights of stairs, and that wasn't very
hard. When I went to Swift, my job was picking up the bowls from the tables, from the meals. Before I
went to college, I worked for a family of three – going to four – children and a mother and father. So,
when I got to just college and doing this, well then, that was pretty easy compared to working for a
whole family. I didn't have a lot of trouble with my studies. So, it was just a lot of fun. Yeah, my mother
didn't allow much goings-on when we went to school. We went to school to go to school. We didn’t go
to teach the teachers. We didn't go to, you know, razzle the teachers. We just went, and we behaved
ourselves. And even though I was that far away from home, which was about 40 or 50 miles, I could still
feel the slap of her hand, I guess. So, I just sort of attended to my business. I watched the other
adventures and other things, but I pretty much left that alone and stayed with my studies and students.
We had a great time. My thing with Swift was, it was family. Everybody loved everybody and helpe all
the students, as far as I know, helped each other, and the teachers were genuinely interested in the
�45
students. They weren't just there for salary. If they had been, they’d gone home or stayed home. But
they were interested in our education, and they helped us always as much as they could.
I remember some of the – well, I call them – strange meals that we had, for lack of a better word. And
even though it was a strange meal, it was still one of my favorites. We had salmon cake and served in
biscuit, and gosh I’d never had anything like that before. I’m also a picky eater, as such, but that was just
one thing. Of course, I met the man that I married there, and we ate breakfast every morning. Like I say,
some of the meals was good, but I was used to country cooking and eating what was put before me. I
never… I don't think I ever had it after I left Swift. I enjoyed it there, but that’s not a thing that I cooked
even for my children.
I think another reason that I did not get into many things was because my brother was there, and he was
a teacher. He had the reputation of being very hard on his students. So, I carefully avoided his classes.
All of the students said he was really good. My mother sort of favored the boys in the family, and I kind
of lived in their – I felt I did – lived in their shadow. But in retrospect, I think she sort of held them up as
an example to me so I would try a little harder to do things. It was her way of challenging me to do what
I could do, but I just sort of felt like she favored them. She thought they could conquer the world, and I
was determined to prove that I could at least come for half of it. If they could conquer the whole world, I
could at least conquer a half. So, that was sort of inspirational, but there were lots of people who had
gone to Swift and taught in the schools in Johnson City that I attended. The Cope family was from
Rogersville. William Cope and then there was all of them. There was about 2 or 3 teachers of that family.
And like I say, Mr. Armstrong was my principal all the time that I was in Langston, and that was like… I
went to Langston in the sixth grade. My class was the only class that attended Langston at the sixth. All
the other classes went in the seventh grade. He would go to the pool room and get the boys if they were
cutting classes and go to the movies. They went to movies, and he would get them. And it just had a
great influence on my life and upbringing. So, I thought Swift would be the place to go.
�46
Lollie Mae McKinney-Surratt
Rogersville, Tennessee
2013
I attended Swift from 1948-49. I only had one year at Swift. My original home is Chesnee, South
Carolina, and I say I cut my teeth on the word “education” because my mother always said she wanted
her children to get an education. She came home one year from visiting my father in Johnson City,
Tennessee, and she said, “Next year when Jaffer gets his bonus, we're going to move to Johnson City.”
Well, I could not understand what the connection was between a boneless and moving to Johnson City
because I was only seven years old. Well, we moved to Johnson City in 1937 – ‘36/‘37 – and I attended
public schools in Johnson City, Douglas Elementary and Langston High School. My mother was still
saying, “I want all my children to have an education,” and of course, in the course of going to school, I
found out the connection between the “boneless” and moving to Johnson City. The word was really
“bonus.” It was not “boneless”. When she came home and said, “We're moving because of Daddy's
bonus,” well, I was just really in the dark. But anyway, that's how we came to Johnson City. There were
seven of us who came to Johnson City, and eventually, there were nine of us, and seven lived. My
brother Ernest went to Langston, and when he met… There were a lot of his professors that were
interested in his going to school, and one of them was, I believe a Robert Hale, and he said, “well, you
can go to Swift College.” The fees were nominal, I mean, at that time, it was only… I don't even know
how much it was a quarter. Well, it was quarters. it wasn't semesters, but anyway, it was something that
we could afford. He worked during all of his high school years, and I did too. So, he was able to come to
Swift, and he finished Swift and went to A&I State, where he graduated. And the year that he
graduated… the year before he graduated from A&I was the year that I was finishing Langston. So, I had
to wait until he felt he got through that year, and then he would send me. But I'll admit I was still a
doubting Thomas. I just didn't see any way that I could go to school. When he finished, and I came home
that year, he said, “Well, I'm gonna send you to Morristown because the rules at Swift are pretty strict,
and you sort of been able to… had been allowed a little more freedom. So, I'm gonna send you to
Morristown.” So, for my freshman year of college, I went to Morristown College, and I was there, and I
was such a homebody. And I thought, “Well, if life is like this at Morristown, it can't be any worse at
Swift, and it will certainly be a little cheaper. And I will be able to be with my brother that year.” I
wanted to be here, where he was, but I didn't want to be in any of his classes because he was a very
hard taskmaster. He was sort of like Miss Dessa. Not that I was going to play around any. And as she said
in those days, we didn’t… Going to college, if you came, it was hardly an option as to whether you were
going to do what you were supposed to do here because you'd either do it, [or] you'd be punished.
You'd be sent home, and the worst of it, in my case, was my grades would be sent to my mother. That, I
definitely did not want, even with him here on the campus. I think I would have probably braved him
here rather than my mother there. So, that wasn't an option.
There was a lot of accountability, and there was a lot of responsibility, especially with going to school.
We were offered education, and for those in my family who wanted to accept it and run with it, well
then, that was a good idea. The others, who didn't, knew that there was not money that could be spent
or somebody to come and just, you know, party for a quarter or a year or something like that. That
wasn't an option. If we were coming to college, we were coming to college to study, and that was it. My
boyfriend, who later became my husband, of course I wouldn't dared to have let him in my room. Not in
those dormitory rooms or anything like that. I heard those stories, but to me, they were stories, and
�47
that's where I left them. We were in the girls’ dormitory, and I think we were up over the dining hall, is
where I think we were. Of course, every day coming from his classroom, he had to pass by my window.
So, I always made it up to my my room to see him pass by my window. I was telling one of the ladies that
I met, coming to and from the reunion, about that, and she says, “Well I did you one better.” She said, “I
had a brick in my room, and every day when my husband” – oh, well, later – boyfriend came by, she
would let her brick down out of the window to give him a message. So, I thought that was pretty unique.
My duty was to pick up all the serving bowls off the table for each meal. I didn't have to wash them. I
just had to had to collect them. One young man was the mailman, and I think the year that – well,
somebody was here – there was only two men. I don't know if this was my time or not, but all the young
men were in service. There was only like two men in the high school and one in the college or something
like that, but it was because of that. Yeah because of the war.
I was in high school, then, and they had the high school department here. This was junior college. They
had up to 12 grades, up to high school. I don't know what the high school years were. I guess 9 through
12, and then, they had freshmen and sophomore. That was as far as we went because it was a junior
college, and that's how come I happened to stay here. Like, I was one year at Morristown. It was a junior
college, and one year at Swift. It was a junior college. So, I was here for that.
We were fortunate to have a group of people, Presbyterian or Christian or whomever, who were
interested in Black children. Get interested enough in Black children to afford them an education. You
know, there were many colleges, but we couldn't afford to go. I mean, they were all priced out of my
price range or income range or whatever. Swift, and Morristown also, we could attend because you
could do some money, and then you get a work scholarship, or some way was made for you to be able
to attend, whatever your financial circumstances were. That's really the point I like about Swift. Even, I
know Mr. Armstrong had lived in this neighborhood, but I don't know if he worked in it or not. He was
our principal at Langston, and he encouraged people to come to Swift and you know get at least a junior
college education. The way I came… There was a Presbyterian minister I told [that] I wanted to come to
Swift, and he said, “Well, come and teach Bible school.” And I did that in Johnson City and applied, and
that way I networked. That was the way not only me, but other students, were able to come to Swift.
They had a really good, caring attitude. when we were here, we were almost like their children. I mean,
they kept a close eye on us.
The people who… The principal and other educators in the area would encourage us to come to Swift,
and tell us ways to apply and those kinds of things.
We had to get up pretty early because we had to get all of this… you know, ladies and bathing and
dressing and well, people in general maybe… and putting on all this makeup, if that's what you did
because we had to be at breakfast at, I’m gonna say, 7 o'clock or 7:30. There was no such thing as you
coming in there... If breakfast was at 7:00, you were there at 7:00. You had time to eat and do whatever
you had to do, and like I said, I picked up the bowls. So, I had to have some extra time to pick up the
bowls in case I had 8 o'clock class or whatever. So, I would go to class, and we had free periods in
between our classes. I mean, you just have your schedule on Monday/Wednesday/Friday,
Tuesday/Thursday. You did this and that and the other. We had whatever classes we had in the morning,
and I think you could go back to your rooms, if you had time in between. Study or do whatever you
wanted to do. You didn't really have what I call free time at Swift. You had time to go and do whatever it
was you had to do. Lunch was at, I'm gonna say, 12 o'clock, and if you didn't come to the dining hall to
�48
get your lunch at the time that you were supposed to be there – like 12, not 12:15, not 12:20 –
something like that… We ate our meals on regular schedule, and I just don't know what happened if you
didn't come to meal. I'm almost thinking [that] somebody would think you'd be sick. We didn't miss a lot
of meals. and then, in the evenings, we had… I don't know if anybody else had chores to do or not, but
anyway, we had to study and do whatever we did. At Morristown, we could go to the library, but you
couldn't go to the library at Swift. At five or six or seven o'clock, whatever time we had to be in, we had
to be in at that time. Each class had, what we call, our time off the campus. We could go to the movies. I
guess, if you were high school, you could go maybe once every two weeks. If you were junior college,
you could go maybe twice a week. I don't think so. But anyway, that's the way our days were scheduled.
It was pretty much work, things that we had to do that pertained to school. Sometimes, we had we did
have time in the afternoon. We had a day that we went to shop in town to get our washing powders and
whatever – that kind of time off the campus. Other times, you were in class, going to the library, doing
activities that were here.
We had calling hour on Sundays from 3:00 to 5:00, I think, or 2:00 to 4:00. Well, I'm gonna be real big
and say we had about three hours for calling our home Sunday. Oh, and we had to go to mid-week
prayer service. We had chapel every day. We had fun, and you know, you can find lots of Swift couples.
Like I said, my husband and I were one, and I met him, I guess, that might have been the highlight of…
Anyway, I met him at Swift that one year that I was here, and I stayed and finished two years. I taught
one year, and we were married the next year. There are many Swift couples. My brother taught school,
and he married one of his students. So, I can convince you that there was recreation somewhere.
You wouldn't believe this now, but I really did not do a lot of adjoining because I love to sing, but I was
not in the choir. I was in the dramatic club in high school, but just that one year here, I don't think I was
outstanding in anything. I am seeing the legacy of Swift day by day, almost. I'm a little in awe of it
because I only attended one year here, and I have seen so many of the people who attended Swift, who
just have done many wonderful things. Not being personal, my brother Ernest McKinney, who was here
that I keep talking about, he was the first Black mayor… I mean, his son was the first Black mayor of
Jonesborough. He was the first alderman. He was elected alderman on the day that Martin Luther King
was shot, and they are now naming a building for him in Jonesborough. I mean, just like this building
here that children will be able to come here and tour. You know, the museum and visit and see all these
kinds of things. And, I don't know, everybody brings something almost every year of their
accomplishments. So, I don't think Swift's legacy will ever die.
�49
Margaret Clark-Delaney
Rogersville, Tennessee
2012
I attended Swift in 1950 to 1953. I met my husband at Swift in 1953. I was 17, and now we were married
for 58 years. So, that’s my special memory, but Swift taught me the way and has made the most
important meaning in my life from the fundamental teachings that it taught me there.
Well, it still brings down the most important part of my life, attending Swift, bringing back the
memories, the maypole, and meeting all our friends that we used to have and get to know them and
have a lot of fun gathering together.
At Swift, Mr. Lee, our president, was very strict. You had to attend prayer service on Wednesday night,
and you had to attend church on Sunday. and you could only go to one church individually on the fourth
Sunday of every month. We had to be in service at the Presbyterian Church, every Sunday morning at 11
o’clock. So, only one time. The high school was on one end, and the college students were on the other.
So, one time – that was the year I was staying in the dorms, my senior year – so, we decided to go down
to visit some of the students on the college part. When we got down there, it was about four or five girls
that decided… We were just playing cards. I didn't really play the cards. I was just looking at them, you
know, looking around. And so, prayer meeting started, and we didn't hear it. We were still playing. So,
all of a sudden, we heard them singing a song down in the auditorium, and we all got up and went
down. Just thinking, “Oh, we missed it,” but when we got down there, we went in and sat down. And at
that time, all of the teachers and Mr. Lee, the whole faculty group, sat on the long seat in the back.
That's where they always sat when service things going on. So, we just marched right in and set right
down, and they wrote our names down as we were coming in. Then, ever since we got in to find out that
was the last song. We had missed the whole service. So, when service was over, Mr. Lee just called us all
to his office, and you would think you had done something really, really terrible at that time. He said –
this was my senior year – he said, “I think I'm gonna send all of you home,” and we would not have been
able to graduate. So, that frightened us very much. Talking to Mr. Lee and Ms. Stanley for a couple
weeks – we were still worried – they finally came and told us, “We’ll let you skip by this time.” But those
were the kind of ways that they punished you as well. So, you had to always walk straight. They taught
you the way which, that has come in good today because we still, as a group here, we all still get that
from Swift, what they had taught us.
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Norma Jean Cope-Bowers
Rogersville, Tennessee
2012
I attended Swift from ’48 to ’53.
Today, my thinking is that May Day helps to still build our foundation, keeps it going. Also, we have what
is known as Graveltown days, and that's another celebration, you might say, where everyone in the
community that once lived here comes back. And I think these types of activities keep us together and
helps to continue our foundation.
I was just thinking this morning, before preparing to come over, that Swift taught us so many things.
Number one might not mean too much to a lot of people but good morals, good manners, how to treat
people. And the fact that they just were so kind to us at all times.
While at Swift, our main concern was the students. to make sure that we were preparing them to enter
other schools, preparing for college and beyond. I can't say too much about manners, which differed
from the other two schools where I taught. So, those were some of the main things, just making sure
that they could get into a college of their choice.
The legacy of Swift means to me that I would not have been where I am today, if it had not been for
Swift. We had the most dedicated teachers, and I was in school under President Lee. And we have many
great things to say about him. He would stand out at the clock every morning as we came to school to
make sure that we were there on time, and he had this snarling habit. He had an allergy or something,
and as we went up the steps, if we were late, we could hear him and say, “What will be our penalty for
today?” There are many, many teachers that I could mention, but I just appreciate all of my teachers
that I had while I was in high school and college. And as had been said, when all of the Swifties get
together, it's just a joy to go back and reminisce of all the good times we had during those school days.
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Pat Snapp-Charles
Rogersville, Tennessee
2012
My name is Pat Snapp-Charles. I attended Swift from ‘56 to ’60.
I do. One of the main ones was during our home economic classes. We sewed, and on May Day, we got
to model everything that we made. So, we had a little fashion show, and I remember how they used to
play the little music. And we’d stroll out the side to walk in front of the King and Queen. And we also did
the maypole and wrapped the maypole, and that was always a lot of fun. We used to have softball
games in the field down from the gymnasium. And it was just all the people – all the people – from
Hawkins County used to gather there and spend the whole day. It was just food and fun, and you'd see
people that you just saw once a year. It was just so much fun. It was something that you really looked
forward to.
How many times I got in trouble! And our principal, Mr. Price, how we used to pick at him a lot and do
things that we knew would upset him, which wasn't very nice. Now I know, but we had a lot of fun doing
it. All my friends… and you know, it was just something to look forward to. I played basketball, and we'd
go on basketball trips and visit other schools. During prom time, schools would visit other schools for
prom. We just really had a blast.
It just brings back so many memories. You can walk through that museum, and you can see pictures. You
can see little items from Swift, and it just brings back so many memories. And it’s sad because all those
things is in the past, but it’s still nice because you still have a part of that with you, that you can carry
with you til the day you die. Swift was really something big for Rogersville, for the Black community of
Rogersville. Swift was really a big deal.
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Robert J. Booker
Rogersville, Tennessee
2012
Well, Dr. Franklin was born in Knoxville, April 16, 1852, and he started to grade school when he was
about eight years old. But as soon as he enrolled, the Civil War broke out, and his schooling stopped. He
didn't even have the chance to learn to write his name before the War started. But in 1863, when
General Ambrose Burnside came down and occupied the city, then Black schools were again allowed to
resume. And Reverend Franklin became a student again. He was enrolled in the LaVere School in 1870,
which was organized by Reverend George Washington LaVere, who was the first pastor, a child of the
Presbyterian Church. And there is a news article in the Knoxville Chronicle of June 1 that talks about
Franklin as a youngster. Of course, by that time he was 18 years old, who had written this essay on the
duty of citizenship. It was the kind of thing that Black people needed to know about. They wanted Blacks
to see young people who were achieving, and Franklin was put upon a pedestal as a young fella who
could write like that and who could make that kind of speech. He was kind of showcased. So, that's
really how he came to public attention initially. He was presented in various communities around
Knoxville, reading the speech that he had written, and of course, one of the places he was showcased
was in Rogersville, Tennessee, where he eventually settled. And the people in Rogersville were so
impressed by the youngster, that when they got ready to build St. Mark's Presbyterian Church, they
wanted him to come and be their pastor. But he wasn't quite ready to go there yet. He needed to
further his education. And so, he did so, until he did become pastor of that church. and as we know, the
rest is history.
Well, when he finished his grade school education here, he was qualified to teach elementary school,
Black children in elementary school. So, he left here and went to Hudsonville, Mississippi and taught
there for two years. And he was able to save enough money to buy his mother a house. His father, by
that time, had died, but he bought his mother a house. But he was always hungry for education and
more education, and he thought that Maryville College might provide what he needed. Because
Maryville College had always been very friendly to Black students. Maryville College was established in
1819, and it had taught Blacks in grade school. In fact, it bought a slave at one time – or the mission, the
Presbyterians there – bought a slave, educated him and sent him as a missionary to Africa. So, Reverend
Franklin knew about that, and he enrolled in Maryville College in 1876, and he was a student leader
there. He was president of the Athenian Society. and when people in the Black community there wanted
to get free education for Blacks in that city, they called on Franklin to serve on committees with them,
and he did. So, during his four years at Maryville College, he was very much active in the community.
And of course, he graduated there in 1880, becoming the first Black person to graduate from the college
department at Maryville College. There had been others who – as I said, they went to grade school
there, who had taken special courses, but he was the first Black person to actually finish the classical
college course in Maryville College.
After he graduated from Maryville College in 1880, he went to Lane Seminary in Cincinnati and studied
to be a minister, and he graduated from that institution in 1883. All the while, he was writing for Black
publications. In fact, several of them were national Black publications. He was highly praised by Garland
Penn, who wrote a book on Negro editors and publishers in 1891 – I believe it was – how Reverend
Franklin was always making contributions to various publications around the country. And his writing
�53
was very clear. He knew a lot of things, and he shared the information with people as he saw fit. And
then he decided to settle in Rogersville. This offer had been made to him some time [ago], about taking
the pastorate of St. Mark's Presbyterian Church. So, he took the pastorate, and started a school there, in
the church. And of course, that school eventually became Swift Memorial College. It's interesting that in
1901, when the state law was passed outlawing the mixing of the races in any school in the State of
Tennessee… Public schools had always been segregated, but schools like Maryville College, Knoxville
College, and maybe a few others had taught both Blacks and Whites… but the state law outlawed that
arrangement. So, people who had been supporting Maryville College said, “Well, we need to help
Reverend Franklin’s school.” So, they began to pump money into his school in Rogersville to help make it
successful, as it was growing by leaps and bounds, and building new buildings and enlarging buildings,
and that kind of thing.
Swift was Swift Memorial Junior College, and it got to the point where it became a four-year college.
And I'm not sure how long that lasted, but it reverted back to a junior college at some point. But I do
know that he was well thought of in that community, and that was indicated when he died in 1935.
Virtually all of the City of Rogersville closed down. All businesses closed down to pay tribute, when he
was being funeralized.
To be born in Knoxville, Tennessee in 1852… Under less than ideal circumstances – even though his
father was a bricklayer, I'm sure they didn't have the money they needed – and under strict rules of
segregation not far from slavery, here was a boy who wanted an education. And he decided to get one,
even though it was extremely difficult for him. Not only did he get the basic education, but he became a
prolific writer. He became an outstanding preacher. He formed a college, coming from those very
humble beginnings. So, I think that says a lot for people, who perhaps today live in public housing or
who have less than ideal living conditions, to say this: you can succeed if you really want to. And I think
Reverend Franklin is a model for that.
Well, one can imagine, Knoxville in 1861 had a tiny population, and of course, the Black population was
smaller than that, can't cite figures. But during the Civil War, some 25,000 Confederate soldiers were in
this area, and then some 25,000 Yankee soldiers were in this area. They didn’t bring food with them, so
they had to live off the lien of the land, I guess you would call it. And they confiscated people's horses
and pigs and cows and chickens and whatever. They knocked down people's outbuildings for fires and
for whatever. They confiscated the corn, the tomatoes, the beans, the whatever was available. So, it
meant a very hard – terrible hardship – on the people, who were trying to survive to begin with! And to
have to put up with all of that, it was really, really tough. And I'm sure that with Black people, in
particular, it was rougher on them than on the general population, especially when the Confederates
occupied the area. They – well, they were hard on both groups, whether they were slaves or free
people. So, you didn't know what was going to happen the next day. Even City Council – Knoxville City
Council – for the most part, could get a quorum to have council meetings. The City decided to get rid of
its police department, except for one policeman who collected the taxes. So, it was a general hardship
on everybody, during that period of time.
There were school houses around the city, private school houses, and they were taken to be used by
military forces, whether they were used as hospitals or headquarters or something else. So, all down the
line, our citizens suffered during that war, from beginning to end.
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Ruth Sharp-Ben
Sevierville, Tennessee
2013
My name is Ruth Ben. At that time I was Ruth Sharp, and I had one teacher who would say, “Be sharp,
look sharp, like Ruth Sharp.” He said it every day when he would open the class. I had a very good time
at Swift. My first assignment was the dish room, and I didn’t wash dishes. I just was over the dish room,
but it turned out to be – I made a profession out of it. I elevated that, from picking up the food to telling
others what to do. I enjoyed most of all – I was from a country town, like Sweetwater, at Swift. So, it was
delightful to me, to be among these people from different places and to learn that what I had gained in
Sweetwater was good enough to work. One thing I remember was that I graduated with four-and-a-half
demerits. Five would have sent you home, but they got to the last, and they decided make it a half.
Because I was in the senior play. It was in May, coming up. So, I was in the senior class play and in the
singing group octet. So, they needed me as badly as I needed them. I learned so much, and the teachers
were so sincere. And they tried so hard to make something out of all of us, and they certainly did an
improvement on me.
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Sandy Durham
Rogersville, Tennessee
2013
I lived in Rogersville all my life. The memories I have of Swift are all… They’re just part of life. We lived in
an apartment called Hasson Street Apartments just right down the street from here, and when they
would come down from the College to go to the movies, in the summer, we’d all be out on the front
sitting. And we'd talk to them, and they were always just so jovial. You know, one thing I especially
remember… there was never any problem with drugs or alcohol. They were just good clean kids, and we
just enjoyed when they’d come up and down the street. They were always really nice and just friendly,
and that's one of the things I really remember about the kids.
Well, my late husband called the football games for Swift. He and John Bill, another gentleman that has
passed away, but they called the football games. I'd go to a lot of the ball games, and I remember them
singing. When they’d make a touchdown, they’d all sing, “Hidey hidey hidey ho!” I remember the
Maypole dances that they would have, and they’d dress in their white dresses, and they’d do the
Maypole dance.
It was just such an integral part of this community and a good part. Actually, the memories of May Day
are just that, just watching, just watching the Maypole dances. I do remember about the campus and
the buildings. They were always very neat and just very… I don't think I was ever in the College, but you
know, it was just how the grounds were always just really well kept. I don't ever remember any
problems there. I do remember the main building on campus. Well, it was gigantic. I remember that. It
had the big archways, and in fact my husband's – my late husband's – family lived just across the street.
The dorm was next to the place where the house was. They were just street divided them, and so, it was
just a very gigantic building to me at that time. My late husband and my oldest son – the bricks were just
there, they were just there – they went and made several trips, and they cleaned some of the bricks, and
they brought them home. We made a fireplace in our kitchen, and they're made from the bricks from
Swift College. It is a pretty fireplace. Stella has seen it, and it is very pretty.
My daughter has a wall that she's planting – gonna plant flowers beside. That's from the bricks from
Swift College, and also the sign out here… I think I sort of ran Stella down in Walmart one day because I
wanted her to have some of the brick because she didn't really know I had them. I just didn't think to tell
her when I'd seen her, and then I didn't see her for a while. I saw her in Walmart, and I think I just about
ran her down. So, she was… I wanted them to be on display here at the Center. That's just sort of how
all this got started, I think.
The football games were a lot of fun, and everybody was just jovial. I know they had a little tent set up.
All the food was just delicious. So, it was just really exciting, and especially since my late husband called
the games, I usually went to them. It was a lot of fun. I know they had the food… They had delicious
chili. I remember they had delicious chili and hot chocolate. Oh, it was so good.
The race relations in Hawkins County have always been very good. I think the White and the Colored
have always had respect for each other. I think part of it was the kids were educated, and they were
strict. It was just a good blend. we've just always enjoyed each other. I think the thing is we've enjoyed
each other, and the education from Swift did play a big part in that. I remember the town was saddened
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when they knew the College was going to be torn down. One of the guys that I remember coming down,
that would walk down the street from where we lived, he was from New York. He had red hair, and he
could sing like a bird. Oh, he could sound just like a bird, just whistle. We always enjoyed just… we
picked out a few like that which was really good.
If you've never been to Rogersville, it is a laid-back, quiet, quaint, beautiful little town. It's an old town,
and the people here are… I've been told the people that come in, they sort of feel like outsiders. But
that's odd to me because I don't feel that way about people, but it is a quaint little town. When I grew
up, it was just such a safe, little town, and nobody ever bothered anybody else. You didn't lock your
doors. It was just… You could play on the street, be out on the streets. The neighborhoods were all safe,
and we just all played together. It was a very, very good, quaint little… It's an antique town, I think.
The people in Rogersville all knew about Swift College, and we all had a real appreciation for the College.
Of course, growing up, being just a youngster, I really didn't even think about it. The people remember,
that were here and still living, that knew about Swift. Swift was just a big part of the community and the
town. I don't think people now remember the College as we did because it's been gone for a long time,
and you would have to have been alive at that time, I think, to have really appreciated it. And I don't
really think people now really do know that much about it, even the people that live here.
The role of the Museum in reminding the people of the College is… Oh, it is just very necessary. Stella
has done a wonderful job in bringing it all together, and it's just been remarkable. When I walked in, the
first time I saw the mural, it just brought tears to my eyes. It was just like I was there and standing on
the sidewalk, just looking up at it. It was just really, a very, very special thing for me.
Actually, I didn't really have the interaction because I was with the kids because I was a lot younger. We
moved away from the Hasson Street Apartments when I was about 7th or 8th grade, and the College
was still there, I believe, at the time. But they were all older than me, and I didn't actually pass the
College on my way to school. I walked to school, and it was the city school. So, I really didn't, that much,
interact with the individual students because they were college students, and I was just a kid. I was a kid
at once.
I think the College played a very big part. I think the aspects of it today have lived on, and the Center
here has… It makes it alive. It's kept it alive. It's kept its memory alive, and a lot of the people my age
and my race or the Black race has… They're going to pass on. It's just so good that we have the Center
here to keep that memory alive. It's good memories. That's what I want to say. It's all good memories.
It's just good memories for my generation and the generation that's coming up. They need to know that
it's a prideful thing for them because they can have a lot of pride in what was done at the College here,
and we've had a lot of celebrities here, too, in Rogersville. And you know, that's all displayed here, and
so, that's all been a real part.
One of the things which doesn't really – well it does because the kids from the College would be there –
but Saint Mark's Church, that’s where they would attend church. On Sunday morning, if I hadn't gone to
church myself, my mother and I, we had opened the doors and listen to them sing at St. Mark's. It was
just beautiful. Oh, it was just beautiful, and that's a good memory I still have.
They did have the parades in town, and it was an exciting thing to watch the parades and the band. And
they were good strutters. They really had some, good, nice parades, and we always loved watching that.
We always enjoyed that. They would have parades in town, and they had a good band. And they were
�57
high steppers; they really were, and they were always a lot of fun to watch. We always enjoyed that
tremendously. Loved to go down and watch them.
When they tore down the administrative building, the main building, I believe it was in 1964. After a
while, my late husband and our oldest son David just went and got some of the bricks and cleaned them.
We now have a fireplace in our kitchen – it's just beautiful – out of the brick from Swift College. It is a
point of pride and nostalgia for me to have the brick. It's like part not only of Swift College, but my
childhood and growing up, and it lives in my home today. I point that out to just about everybody that
comes into my house, into our home. It's also a reminder to my children and grandchildren that this is a
part of a College that used to be in our town that has been torn down. Probably different homes in
Rogersville also have a part of Swift in their home.
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Stella Gudger
Rogersville, Tennessee
2013
Coming out of the Civil War, the Presbyterian Churches of the United States had a real concern as to
what's going to happen to the freed Black men. How are they going to get an education? So, Maryville
College had one of the first Black graduates, who was Dr. William Franklin. He was also a graduate of
Lane Seminary out of Cincinnati, Ohio. They sent him to Rogersville to preach, teach, and establish a
church, a school. And so, he came in 1883, and in 1893, that's when Swift was built. But when he first
came, he taught out of an open frame building – newspapers on the wall, no underpinning. The
conditions weren't good at all, but that was the way it was. So, in 1893, the Presbyterian churches
actually built Swift Memorial Junior College, and it actually did very well because it was also a boarding
school. you could go four years of high school, and then you'd go right into college. So, we had students
from all over the Northeast and Southeast. So, it just wasn't for local students.
The Presbyterians looked around, and they found that Rogersville was a stronghold for Presbyterians.
So, that's why they chose to build a school in Rogersville, Tennessee.
William H. Franklin was born in Knoxville, Tennessee. He was also one of the first Black graduates of
Maryville College. He came to Rogersville because the Presbyterians felt like Rogersville – after looking
around, they felt like Rogersville was one of the strongholds for Presbyterians. So, that's why Rogersville
was chosen, and one of the reasons that William H. Franklin was sent to Rogersville.
I think they realized, when the Presbyterian churches were looking for schools that they could build, and
Rogersville being one of those chosen places, Dr. Franklin being a graduate… They felt like he had the
ability and the knowledge to be able to establish this school. He was also a minister, having graduated
from seminary. So, their thing was to build a church, establish a church, and also establish a school. And
having been a graduate of Maryville College, I think he understood... It was a liberal arts college. So, I
think he understood the necessity for Blacks to be educated, and he knew how to do that. And I just
think he was a great candidate to be sent here to do that.
1883 [Dr. Franklin shows up in Rogersville]. No great conditions waiting for him, when he came to
Rogersville, because there was not a school. He had to move forward and do whatever he could, but he
had lots of support from the Board of Missions, who were concerned with educating Blacks. So, he had
lots of help from them. In fact, Elijah Swift was the President of the Board of Missions, and in fact, Swift
Memorial Junior College was named after Elijah Swift. So, he did have help, and he did have help from
the community because they realized also that it was necessary to educate the Blacks. I mean, how
would they be educated if they did not get a start? And this was the start, having the Presbyterian
churches establish Swift College.
Elijah Swift was President of the Board of Missions for Freedmen, and after all of the work that he had
done, helping to get Blacks educated, it just seemed appropriate that he would be named, that Swift
College would be named after him. Elijah Swift. The first building, of course, was newspapers on the wall
and that type of a building. But then, it went from there and established and built in 1893. I think when
it first started, of course, they've added a couple of wings since then, since it was built, because of the
population growing. But actually, Swift also taught elementary. It started out elementary all the way
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through high school, all the way through college. I didn't realize that. I always thought of Swift being
Swift College, and I had no idea, until just in reading some of the documents about Swift, that it also was
an elementary school. Think about it, because it was all part of the education process from the start. So,
there was grade school students, also, that went to Swift, and as I said before, you could go four years of
high school and then go right into… At first, it was a four-year college. I don't exactly remember the year
that it changed to a junior college, and that came about because of the accreditation of a four-year
college. It did not meet that criteria. So, then it was changed to a junior college, and right now, I really
don't remember the year that that was changed.
The population of Blacks in Rogersville has probably remained almost the same. It's like one, one and a
half percent, which is not very much, but education was very important to the Blacks here in Rogersville.
Because we had students from, like I said, the Northeast and the Southeast. So, it just wasn't for the
locals. It was just a good central place in Upper East Tennessee that they felt like was the perfect place
to build a college, and as I said, Maryville College was such a big part of that.
Oh, [I] could not wait to get to school. The only thing I hate is that when I started Swift, I was in high
school. And so, the college had closed, and so, I was really disappointed with that. I mean, think about it,
could you imagine being in high school and going, walking on campus with college guys?
They did recruit people, and like I said, they had elementary school at the college. They've recruited.
They also had a baseball team, basketball, football. They even had a golf team. I thought that was pretty
unusual that they would have this, at that time period. I thought that was pretty neat that they would
do that, but they would recruit people. The students that came to Swift, mostly there were a lot of local
students, but a lot of the students came from the Northeast. I remember, we had students from New
York. We had students from Virginia and Kentucky. The students that came to Swift during this time
period were, of course, a lot of them were uneducated. They did come from different areas, and the
recruitment process was… We've got the school, and now the recruiting process. And so, we did have
students from different states, different cities, and that was a process in itself because there wasn't very
many Blacks here in Rogersville. That was one of the goals of Dr. Franklin, is we've got to get these
people. We've got to get the Blacks educated. That was his mission. That was his goal. With help from
the Board of Missions for Freedmen, that was a good source to go to because they were the ones that
also helped recruit to bring students to Rogersville.
It is a boarding school. Swift is a boarding school. So, I think that's what made it even more elite because
they would think, “How did you get such an elite college in a little rural town in Rogersville?” And I think
it came about because for the Presbyterian churches and students coming from all over. I think that was
the big thing and then, word of mouth. I think it was great. It was that time, and I guess it was going all
over the United States, with trying to educate, build colleges for the Blacks, the free Blacks.
Well, you think about it, you do have the elementary. You have a high school, and you have the college.
So, I think that it must have been a very challenging time for Dr. Franklin to have this curriculum set up
to cover all of these great levels. But evidently, he’d done it very well. I mean, I've looked at some of the
catalogs, and you could see how it's all laid out. Tuition back then was like 48 dollars a year. The
students couldn't – the boarding students could not leave the campus unless they had a chaperone.
They had to have devotional service every morning. They attended St. Mark's Presbyterian Church. I
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understand that the girls had to walk in pairs of twos. They had wear gloves. They had to wear hats. And
it was just a well-organized, great place that was established.
Actually, there were teachers from not just Rogersville because Swift College was really a normal school.
They taught – it's what they taught: students to become teachers. I think I remember reading the most
back in those days was like, back in the 1800s, was probably 250 some students. That included the
elementary, the high school, and the college. Just looking at the timeframe, coming on down through
the years, we never had like five or six hundred students or anything like that. It was always on a small
level, but it was all about educating the ones that were here. And I think the mission of Swift College was
to educate students to become teachers because that was what was needed, really, to move forward
and be progressive in educating Blacks during that time period.
I think probably the biggest contribution is having accomplished the goal of educating the Blacks that
were in this area. It was an asset also to the community, and I actually felt like, because of Swift, the
race relation, I think, had a lot to do with Swift being here in Rogersville. Just because of education, it's
not like you're beneath other people, not just because of your race but people look at other people
because of their education. And I think people had a great respect for Swift and what it stood for. So, it
was not only great for the community economically. It was great for the education and the relationship
that existed here, and the spirit was really… really, really, great. I mean, I think about the students that
no longer are part of Swift, but they held it in their hearts because even now we have a Swift reunion
every year, somewhere in the United States, for a college that closed in 1955. So, to me, that's a great
treasure to know this history and have it endured.
Well, by the nineteen and the early 50s, by this time, the Presbyterian churches had about twenty-two
colleges, and they realized they could no longer fund that many colleges. So, they actually appointed an
advisory board in Rogersville to try to keep it going, and it did go for about two or three years. But then
it closed in 1955, but when it closed, it remained as a high school. But they did close the college in 1955.
The school closed because the Presbyterian churches, during this timeframe, had about 22 colleges, and
they could no longer fund that many colleges. So, they wanted to keep it going. That's why they
appointed the advisory board, to take care of keeping it going. But they just could not do it, and
therefore, they had to close it. They closed it, but it remained as a high school. They sold it to the
Hawkins County Board of Education for $100,000, and that's why they had to close. But it kept going,
and then, it became a high school, and then in 1958, they sent all the students from Price Public
Elementary School to Swift High School. And then in 1963, integration came, and in 1964, they actually
tore the building down. That was the sad part because there was no consultation or anything from any
of the Hawkins County Board of Education. They just tore it down, and that was a sad day.
The campus had a beautiful, beautiful campus. Students would – we would have, like on May Day, that
was a big celebration, we'd have activities, wrap the Maypole. The students that took home economics,
they would have, whatever they made during that year. we would have a fashion show, and that would
be done on May Day. They also had a baseball field. We had a gymnasium. It was part of the campus,
but now, the football field, we had to actually use another school, a local school in Rogersville, to play
football. But I thought it worked out pretty neat because I think they would play on Friday, and we
would use it on Thursday. So, I think that was part of a good relationship between the races, to do
something like that. I know that one thing – we never got new books. The other schools always got the
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new books. We always got books that were handed down to us. So, I mean there were issues, but as far
as race problems within the school, at that time being segregated, I don't remember any problems.
Well, Price Public School was built in 1868. That was right after the Civil War, too. There were four
African-American men; right now, I don't remember all of the names. But there were four
African-American men, and they actually purchased this plot of land to build a school. The deed actually
said, “To educate colored children.” And so, they built a two-room log cabin, and as the population
grew, they had to tear it down, and so, this is the school they built. It was built in 1923, and it was from
first grade through eighth grade. And as I said, it closed in 1958, and then all the students from Price
Public was sent to Swift High School, which became an elementary school also.
I think Swift, to me, was more like a family institution because I think the teachers really had a concern
for educating the students, not just academically but for the morals and values that were taught at
Swift. I think that had a big influence. Mannered, mannerism, and just a good, all-around good school. It
was also a school that we had a lot of fun. The spirit of Swift was so high. I know now, they have pep
rallies, and they get ready to have football games, and people get excited. There was an excitement
there all the time, and of course, at that time, there wasn't a problem with drugs. There wasn't a
problem with race. There wasn't… We didn't have any of those things, the drinking, and we didn't have
things like that to contend with. So, it was a good atmosphere.
Well, Price Public, of course, was the beginning of learning, as any school would do with first grade and
getting that good basic background. And I think they did a great job of that; I think we had some good
teachers at Price Public. We didn't have a cafeteria. We had to bring our lunch, and at one point, I think
there was a potbelly stove here, I've been told. And every now and then, they would do a pot of pinto
beans and cornbread, and the students would be fed that way. There were other schools that were out
in the county, and so, it wasn't just Price Public. There was a, I think, a school in a little community in
Petersburg, and there was one at Sanders Chapel, I think it was called the Straw Community. So, there
were a few other schools around, but by far, Price Public was one of the larger schools, elementary
schools.
I did want to say, students coming to the high school: they had to ride the bus, students from the whole
county. And I know that probably wasn't a good thing. It was accepted because that was the way. That
was then, this is now, but those students had to get up at five o'clock in the morning and pass several
schools to come down here to go to high school. But I feel like we did get a great education. The
boarding students, they did work at the school. They worked in the laundry room. They worked in the
cafeteria. This helped pay for their tuition. And of course, the locals, I don't know that the locals ever
worked at Swift. But that was one way they earned their money to help pay for their education. We
have several of those items from the cafeteria and a lot of the artifacts that came from Swift. That's
really why the museum was established: not to lose the history, to preserve those artifacts, not just for
Hawkins County but for the whole state of Tennessee to know what an impact that Swift College had on
this small community. Because the students that were taught, they ended up being doctors and lawyers
and teachers, and that's a great contribution to the nation.
Well, I actually wasn't a student when the College was going on, but from what I have heard, it was a
great relationship. I don't think there was any anyone that felt like they were above the local students
because I know that a lot of the students actually met their sweethearts here and ended up getting
married. And that's a great connection to have – to meet someone at college, and then you end up
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marrying. So, I know… I'm not trying to paint a beautiful picture as everything perfect, but I know that
the relationship was good. And I think that needs to be said.
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Stella Gudger
Rogersville, Tennessee
2013
My name is Stella Gudger. I'm the Executive Director of the Price Public Community Center in Swift
Museum, that’s located in Rogersville, Tennessee. Dr. Franklin was actually one of the first black
graduates of Maryville College. He graduated in eighteen and 80 (1880). After graduation, he then went
to Lane Seminary out of Cincinnati, Ohio. When he graduated from the seminary, Maryville College
actually sent him to Rogersville to preach, teach, and establish a school. I always thought that was such a
big order of business to be able to do all of that. When he first came, of course, there was no school, and
he had to teach out of an open frame building with newspapers on the wall. [I] think back on this, and
I'm thinking what a horrible situation to be in. He moved his classroom to St. Mark's Presbyterian
Church, which at that time was located on McKinney Avenue in Rogersville. He taught there for probably
about 10 years before the Presbyterian Churches of the United States actually built Swift College. That
was built in eighteen and ninety three (1893). So from that point on, there were struggles, but it was the
beginning of the Swift Memorial College. When he taught, when he first came, and he taught out of this
open frame building with newspapers on the wall and no underpinning… I don't know how many
students he had at that time, but I do know that from that point he did move to the St. Mark's
Presbyterian Church, which was located on McKinney Avenue at that time, and I'm thinking, that's… for
ten years he taught there. That had to be such an asset to the city, and to Swift, to be able to have a
building to do that. But of course, we must remember that he was also the pastor of St. Martin's
Presbyterian Church, so I'm sure he felt right at home, and then we go from there.
The College was built in 1893. Then St. Mark's -- he no longer taught at St. Mark's -- but St. Mark’s was
moved to the campus of the College. From there, that was a turning point, too, for the students because
they had services. Well actually, they had devotion every morning in the chapel, and then on Sundays,
they would go to church Sunday morning. They would go to church, and the women would be dressed in
their -- they had to wear hats and wear gloves, and they had a march by twos. And they would go to
church. Then in the afternoon, they would have, I think, Vespers, it's what they called it then. Then they
were also -- they had -- were allowed to have -- a social date, per se, for one hour. And I always thought
that was pretty strict. And the other things: they would go downtown; they would have to have a
chaperon. Because when you think about a high school -- it was a four-year high school -- the students
would go right into college. So, there was a lot of diversity there because we had students from the
Northeast, Southeast, and also the local students. So it was a big deal, I mean, I've had people often ask,
“Well how did you get such an elite college in this little rural town of Rogersville?” and it was because of
the Presbyterian Churches of the United States and Maryville College.
What I understand for the daily life of a student at Swift -- I'm sure for the College was so much different
than for the local high school students who were part of it. Because I know that it was very, very strict.
The boys had a separate dormitory, and the girls had a separate dormitory. When I say separate, I mean
that it was actually in a different location, with the dormitories. But like I said, they were able to
socialize with each other. I think a big thing was the sports, because we had basketball and football and
tennis. So that was one of the highlights, I think, of a school, and I think people just had a just a fun time,
really. I know there were the academics and everything, but I think there was a real connection with
how the students felt about the school. I know I really regret that I was not -- when I was in high school
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-- that the College had already closed. So, I do regret that, but I think the normal life -- we had a
cafeteria just the as normal schools would have. I mean, at this point, I think the tuition was like $48 a
year, and I'm not sure, I don't even think the local students had to. They didn't have to pay any tuition at
all. It was just a fun time.
There was a work-study component because they had to work in the cafeteria. They had to help do
laundry because they had a laundry room. And I suppose, maybe with the with the male students,
perhaps they had to do other things. I think there was a plot of land where there were vegetables that
were grown. And therefore, they would go and pick the vegetables, and then bring them back and peel
the potatoes or whatever. They cook the greens or whatever. So that was part of the component. I know
that, and I know that they did have to do laundry, and I think that helped pay for their tuition. I mean
being a local and not staying in the dorm -- I'm not sure what their regiment was. I'm not sure what time
they did get up, but they did do breakfast. All of the students -- when they assemble for classes, all of
the students went to the auditorium, and we would have devotion. Not like today, you understand,
they've taken a lot of things out of the school. But we all had devotion, then we would go to class, and
then there would be the lunch period and back in class.
Swift did have an ensemble, and I know that they traveled. Whatever they made from their concert, that
money would be turned back in to the College. I sort of visualized that it may be similar to the Fisk
Jubilee singers, how they would travel. And I know that they were very, very good because they always
done well, and anytime there was a special event, they were they were always on program. So,
everybody just -- you could hear a pin drop because they were that good.
Some of the buildings on campus that really stand out in my mind was the Home Economics Building.
Because that's where we learn to sew and cook, and the clothes that we made, we would always model
those clothes when we had May Day. Everybody always looked forward to May Day, wrapping up the
Maypole. It's just a big event that we had every year. We would always have a baseball game and the
fashion show and wrapping of the Maypole. So, it was a big deal. Some of the other buildings, like I had
said before, there were the dormitories where the male students stayed, and then the females stayed
within the administration building, where the classrooms and all of those other activities were. We also
had a gymnasium that was not in the school. It was on the property of the of the campus, so that was
pretty neat. We also had a baseball field, but we did not have a football field. We actually used the
Rogersville City School football field. We would have it one night, and then they would do it another
night. I always thought that was pretty interesting, because it was more like it was a community thing.
There was some unity there, and I thought that was really good. I think the other buildings that were on
were the president's home, and it was it was really a nice home. Basically, I think that was it – were all of
the buildings. Well the administrative building: it was large, three floors, hardwood floors. I know I've
heard some students say they were always afraid to go -- there was another level -- they were always
afraid to go up there because they thought there were ghosts there. I don't know, I never went up there.
But it was three floors, and it was so huge. I'm trying to think about the number of students at one time.
There probably were maybe 200, maybe 250, students in all. But it was a very large building, and it was
very beautiful. The auditorium was actually beautiful. As I remember, I just think it was a great building.
Actually, starting from the very beginning of eighteen and 83 (1883), when the College first began, it
actually did very well. Until, I guess, it was maybe in, I don't know, the early 50s that, by this time, the
Presbyterian Churches had about 22 colleges, and they felt like they could no longer fund that many
colleges. So, they actually appointed a board, an advisory board, here in Rogersville to try to keep it
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running. Also, who was involved in that was the Board of Missions for Freedmen. So, they were part of it
too, and they tried so hard to keep it going. But it just didn't work out, so in 1955 Swift closed. The
building was actually sold to the Hopkins County Board of Education for a hundred thousand dollars, and
then at that time, even though it closed in 1955, it remained as a high school. And then actually, they
sent all of the students from Price Public Elementary School in 1958 to Swift High School. Then Swift
High School became first grade through 12th grade. and then integration came in ’63. Then in ’64, the
next year, they actually tore the building down. Well, let me say this, actually, ‘63 was the last year of
the Swift High School, and then integration actually started in 1964. And that was the same year they
tore the building down. The impact of tearing the administrative building down was a huge -- I'm not
even sure what words you’d say -- but it was a, let me just say, it was a huge disappointment to the
Blacks of the community. First of all, we had no say about it. A decision was made, and it was done. And
I understand that they took truckloads of things from the school to the city dump. So, there was a lot of
history, a lot of artifacts, that were lost. I think I could use the word devastating. It really was
devastating because once it's gone, it's gone, and all you have are pictures and memories. That's one of
the reasons we establish the museum, even though it's just a one-room museum. It's got a lot of history
here that people can come, and it's preserved. It's not lost, and I think that's the main thing. once you
lose history, you just can't get it back.
There were really some trailblazers with the College, and I think that Dr. Franklin was certainly one of
those trailblazers because the conditions and the struggles that he went through. But he was very
intelligent. He was very well educated. He was very articulate. I think Dr. Franklin had a vision for Swift.
having been educated through Maryville College, I think he had this vision of how he wanted the
students to be. He did not want them to just be a student that got an education and probably could do
domestic work and get a job. Because we have to remember, there were no jobs. There were no schools
after the Civil War. Well, there were a few schools in the South, but there weren't a lot of schools. So, I
think he had this vision; he wanted students to be an all-around person. He had -- so like, Swift had the
arts. They had music. They had sports. They had religion. I think he wanted the student to be an
all-around student, and I just I think he wanted to have a valu-- and let the students know that it was
important to have a valuable education. He also wanted them to know, to have life values. I think that
was important to him, so that they would be able to go out and be productive, and also be able to enjoy
life itself. So, I think, had it not been for his vision, that probably Swift would not have produced lawyers
and doctors and nurses and teachers. All of these professional people would not have happened, had he
not had this vision. So I really think that's the legacy of Dr. Franklin.
Dr. Franklin's last year at Swift was, I think, 1926. Then when he died, it was just a big blow to the whole
city because he had established so much in Rogersville. So, when he died all of the businesses closed
down for that day, when he had his funeral. and to me, that just showed a lot of respect that they had
for Swift and for Dr. Franklin. All of these -- the book of the history of Swift, I would hope would not be
forgotten. I would love to see this passed down from one generation to the next generation to the next
generation, to tell the children how it really was. I think our plans are to have the fifth-grade tours which
will let those fifth graders, who are now studying American history, would let them know their history in
their own city -- the culture of the African-Americans in their city. It's such an important part to know
your history, and so I just think it was a great -- he was a great asset to Rogersville.
Well, let me just say that I think Rogersville was just a unique town in its own because there were Black
businesses downtown. I know there was a Black barbershop, and there was a restaurant called Arch
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Fain’s restaurant. And I think people really actually had respect for each other. I think that, and I
attribute a lot of that to the College because people that are educated, I think, there's that respect. I
remember when they did integrate, from what I was told, that there was not incidents, major incidents.
I'm sure there were some, but not major incidents. I think that's because the people in Rogersville
actually just respected each other. Now, I’m not so naive that I would not believe that there was
prejudice, and I'm not saying that. but I am saying that there was a respect, and I think when people
respect each other, I think that's so important. because that means that it's okay to have your opinion
about different things. So it was -- like I said, I think there was a lot of unity in the community. because I
know that we had whites and blacks that actually played basketball on our courts. I mean, that was just
a routine, daily thing, that they played together. It seems kind of odd, now that I think about it. they
would play together, but then they would go to school. They would go to different schools, but yet they
had that connection with each other. and I just think that's important.
In 1901 it's when the doors of the legislature closed the doors to blacks, and of course, Dr. Franklin had
already been -- he had already graduated, but Maryville College felt like it was very important that they
give an endowment, part of their endowment, to Swift College. And as I remember reading, they took
that endowment, which was twenty-five thousand dollars, and they actually built the boys dormitory.
That's actually what was done with the money. But I always think back about how Maryville College was
such a big part of the success of Swift College. At one point, it was actually a four-year college, and then
it was reevaluated by the State of Tennessee, and then it became a junior college. Then the name was
changed to Swift Memorial Junior College. Dr. Franklin, here again, was such a great educator, and he
had such great training that he did a wonderful job, and he deserves all the credit. Some of the courses
that they had at Swift, and I may be repeating myself here, but Dr. Franklin did want to make sure that
the students were well-rounded. So I know that there was, of course, the sciences, mathematics. They
had chemistry. they had auto mechanics. They had woodworking. And like I said, they also had the home
economics, where they there learn things. And of course, they had English -- just a standard, I guess
necessary criteria that they had to have in order to be state-funded. But, sociology and of course they
had religion. They had religion classes so of course that set it apart simply because it was a Presbyterian
liberal arts college. So that's kind of the classes and things that they had. I don't remember that they had
brick masonary. I don't I don't think so. I've not read that they did.
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Wayne Fain
Rogersville, Tennessee
2012
Well, I graduated in 1960. It [May Day] was a big event. Actually, everyone that went there understands
and knows that. We always looked forward to it, and it was a great day. You know, I think about it – all
the events and the wrapping of the Maypole, and the afternoon. Later, we had the ball game down in
the field and whatever. So, it was a great, great day for May Day at Swift.
Well, with my classmates and the ones that I grew up with there at Swift, it came down to the last part
point of the year, and things that we did – we did some pretty bad things to think about that. But back at
that time, it was a lot different, and everybody did. I remember we were seniors, and it was about five of
us went out into Big Creek, swimming. And I could never forget Mr. Price was our school president, and
everything that someone reports, he came out and made us come back to school. So, that was one of
the great events about our senior year, and we thought that we could get by with something. But
someone reported us, and he came out and escorted us back to school. So, that was a big event about
Swift.
Oh, it meant a whole, whole lot because whenever you looked back at your family, and all your aunts
and uncles that went there, and know that you had the opportunity to, it means a lot. It means a lot.
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Dr. William “Tom” Bogart
Maryville, Tennessee
2012
My name is Tom Bogart, and I'm the President of Maryville College. Maryville College has multiple
connections to Swift College. The most prominent example is that the founder, William Henderson
Franklin, was an 1880 graduate of Maryville College. Now, Maryville College had been racially integrated
from the time it opened in 1819, but Mr. Franklin was the first African American to successfully graduate
from the College. He then went on to seminary and went on to help found Swift Memorial Institute.
While the college and a few other institutions in Tennessee were open to racially integrated classes,
there wasn't sufficient capacity, here or at some of those other places, to educate the large number of
freedmen who were looking for education and in the post-Civil War era. Another interesting connection
is in 1901. In that year, the Tennessee legislature successfully, if that's the right word, closed the last
loophole to racially integrated education. Maryville College was the last school in the State of Tennessee
to become racially segregated. Now, what we did as a result… First of all, at commencement in 1901, we
awarded an honorary degree to William Henderson Franklin, which showed our opinion about that
particular piece of legislation. More concretely, the Board voted to send 10% of the College's
endowment to support Swift Memorial Institute. The belief was that the people who had donated that
money had done it in order to promote racially integrated education and especially in education of
African American students. And our board felt that the right thing to do with that money would be to
support the education of African American students, now that we weren't allowed to do so at Maryville
College.
Before 1901, there were a wide variety of Jim Crow Laws being written in education. For a number of
institutions, it was irrelevant because they weren't racially integrated to begin with. For some
institutions, there was not a particularly strong commitment. So, even mild language from the
legislature was sufficient to enforce segregation. For a small number of institutions, there had to be a
few different versions of laws forbidding racial integration. What wound up happening in 1901 was a
law, that said it in about that many words: “It's illegal to have racially integrated classrooms,” came in to
effect. Our Board, interestingly enough, and President reviewed whether or not to try to challenge or
commit civil disobedience of the law, and determined that the law had been written so that we would
lose. And so, instead chose not to contest it, and instead chose to do something constructive and
positive by supporting Swift Memorial Institute.
1819 was when we were founded. Interestingly, we had a lot of philanthropic support from people in
the North who wanted to support this this type of educational environment. The Presbyterian Church,
like most major US denominations, was split into a Northern and Southern part in the 1800s. Maryville
College was part of the Northern Presbyterian Church, although located in the South. So, among other
things, just after the Civil War when the college was rebuilt on the current campus, the Freedmen's
Institute in Washington D.C. actually contributed about 1/3 of the cost of building Anderson Hall. Still
the largest academic building and the oldest building here on campus. In 1867, our Board reaffirmed
that the College would open its doors to anyone who was qualified to receive the education and
explicitly ruled out discrimination on the basis of race. We were also co-educational at a time where that
was relatively scandalous. In fact, we take pride in having awarded the first Bachelor's degree to a
woman in the State of Tennessee.
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Education gives you a bigger world. That can be literally, as you travel from place to place, but more
importantly, imagination creates everything. Everything that you enjoy today is the result of someone
having created and invented it, and the way you create and invent is by building on the
accomplishments of others, and an education is what helps get you to that point. Talent comes in all
shapes and sizes. Everyone needs access to education to take full advantage of the potential that's
within them. I'm very proud that here at Maryville College, that has always been our approach. We want
every one: man, woman, Black, White. We don't care. We want people who want to learn and work hard
and make the world a better place.
One of the interesting questions, when you start to create these divisions among people, is who falls on
which side of a line. And so, you spend a huge amount of time trying to figure out if someone's in or out,
instead of just going about and doing the important work at hand. To me, that's just a waste of time and
energy. One of the differences in college today, as opposed to college in the 1870s and 1880s, is the
amount to which you have choice. In 1880, you would have been told, “Here are the classes you will
take to graduate, and here is your schedule today,” and you would have moved from class to class with a
bell ringing. Just as many schools do today. elementary and high schools have a bell ringing. In our case,
it was a literal bell at the top of the bell tower and in our largest building. So, one of the differences
would have been, instead of him choosing, “Oh, I'm going to take this class and this class and take it at
this time,” it would be, “Okay, Tuesday at 10:30, here's where you will be, and here's what subject you
will study, assuming you plan to graduate.”
Well, the residences were not integrated on campus at the time, and so, he would have lived in town
and would have run into a variety of situations ranging from fully integrated to fully segregated. As I say,
that was in the early days of Jim Crow, and in East Tennessee, like every region of the country, the way
that that came in was not all at once with a full-blown apartheid system. What you had were degrees
and shadings from place to place and time to time. I would imagine that he ran into situations that were
rewarding as Whites were fully accepting and respecting of him. I would imagine that he ran into
situations that were very daunting and challenging as he was treated poorly or even excluded, solely on
the basis of his color.
It's unimaginably hard to start a school. I have the privilege of being President of a school that's been in
existence for almost 200 years, and this is a hard job. To start a brand-new school, to educate a
population that in many ways had been excluded from education, before there were interstate
highways, before there were telephones, before there was the Internet… I'm in awe of what he's done.
And the College, I will say, Maryville College kept him as part of the College community throughout this
time. He served on the Alumni Board of Directors, during the time he was President at Swift. As I said,
we gave him an honorary Doctorate as our last statement about the rise of legal segregation. So, while
he was founding Swift, he also was generous enough to devote himself to continuing to help Maryville
College be the best place it could be. He graduated at the age of 28. At the age of 31, he had already
been to seminary and been recruited to start a college. One of the important strengths of American
higher education is not just the diversity of students within colleges, not just the diversity of colleges,
but also the fact that you do not have to graduate at 22 in order to move on and be successful. A lot of
our most successful people take, what might call, the scenic route to college. They become what we call,
in the jargon, non-traditional students. Well, this is this is someone who was a non-traditional student,
who then went on to found and lead an impressive educational institution for many years, one whose
impact is still felt to this day.
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I don't know that there would have been any formal connection. We were very Presbyterian back in the
day. So, the Board at the time that Reverend Franklin graduated, Dr. Franklin graduated, was approved
by the Presbyterians, and in many cases, consisted of Presbyterian ministers. The faculty were all
Presbyterian ministers at that point in time. So, while there would have been relations with people from
other churches, and other churches in general, I think, systematically, the main relationship was to the
Presbyterian Church.
The relationship between Maryville College and the Black community in the region was positive, but I
will also say that it wasn't heaven. Students who came to campus here while we were integrated, before
1901, were welcomed to get that education, but there were students who were not particularly pleased
about the integration. In fact, the full story of the Legislature's action in 1901 is that the person on the
Legislature who wrote the law, closing the last loophole, was a Maryville College graduate. And the story
goes that he postponed his graduation by a year, so as not to have a Black classmate. So, while Maryville
College as an institution was very welcoming to racial integration, various individuals were on the
spectrum that you find in any institution, from being very supportive to adamantly opposed. And that's
one of the challenges that all of us face, is finding what the right thing to do is at a given point in time,
even if it's not universally acclaimed as the right thing to do. Looking back from today, it's easy for us to
say, “Well the people that were supporting racial integration, they were right.” It might have been
harder as a White person in 1875 to take that position. As I say, one of the things I'm proudest for this
institution is that the leadership of it held, as long as it was legal to be integrated, that that was our
approach. It's both… It's a point of pride. It's also a real challenge. What are we doing today that, 125
years from now, people are going to look back and say, “Maryville College got it right in 2013, 2014, and
2015”? Even though at the time, it wasn't easy. Maryville College is not isolated in its approach to racial
integration. Blount County and East Tennessee more broadly were better than many other parts of the
country, and I think that there was a mutual reinforcement between actions that the College took and
the broader society surrounding the College. So, as the College welcomed African American students,
that in turn helped create an atmosphere where other institutions in Maryville and Blount County, and
throughout East Tennessee, could also be integrated, and vice versa. The fact that other institutions and
that this area was supportive of the rights of African Americans, in turn empowered Maryville College
and supported us as we tried to educate.
The Presbyterian Church has always believed in both an educated clergy and an educated congregation.
And so, the Presbyterian Church. as it expanded throughout the United States, tended to be involved in
starting schools – in many cases elementary and secondary schools, but also colleges. The story goes
that Isaac Anderson, the founder of Maryville College, went to New Jersey and Pennsylvania to try to
recruit people to come and preach on the Southwestern frontier of the United States and had a hard
time convincing people, in the early 1800s, to move from the comfortable civilized areas around
Philadelphia to the wilds here in Tennessee. And so decided, “Well, I'll just start my own school to
educate both ministers but also anyone else who can benefit from that education.” Reverend Anderson
was prominent among the abolitionists in East Tennessee in the early 1800s. One of his first students
was a freedmen named George Erskine, who after attending college here, was appointed as a missionary
to Africa by the Presbyterian Church and went there. Also, among Reverend Anderson's first students
were Cherokee Indians. This, of course, was before the Indian Removal that we know as the Trail of
Tears. So, it's been in the College's DNA to reach out very broadly since we were founded. You can trace
the American frontier, in many ways, by looking at the founding dates of some of these colleges. So, in
1819, when we were founded, Centre College in Danville, Kentucky, another Presbyterian school, was
�71
also founded. And so that gives you a sense of about where the frontier was in Kentucky at the time.
And similarly, what you'll find is, as the frontier of settlement moved westward, that every decade or so,
you see a new set of colleges getting started, as the frontier moves far enough away from what are now
established colleges in the civilized parts.
In the early 1950s, as racial segregation and schools started to come under assault – first in graduate
school, and then with Brown versus Board of Education – throughout the country, some historically
Black institutions struggled as their students were now able to attend what had been the formerly
all-White schools, which tended to have been better funded. And I think that Swift struggled with some
of that dynamic as Hawkins County integrated, and many of the students, who otherwise would have
had to go to Swift, now had the opportunity to be part of Hawkins County. And eventually, I think that
that's what happened there. The Swift Institute building was torn down and replaced, and it's a beauty.
I've seen the photos. It's a beautiful building, and I've always wondered whether that was because, even
in a racially integrated county, that some people did not want White students going to what had been
the Black school.
To know that, because I've seen the photos of the building, and it is spectacular. And now when you go
to that site, it's mostly an open field. Franklin's grave is still there, and so that's beautiful, but it's a
shame that that incredible building isn't there anymore. I would love to see it.
But one of the issues… just as Jim Crow didn't happen all at once, integration after 1954 didn't happen
all at once. Maryville College announced that it was reintegrated a couple of weeks after Brown versus
Board of Education, and in fall semester of 1954, we enrolled African American students again. Not
every institution adopted that approach. You've heard about some of the conflicts and difficulties in
integrating other schools, and that was true at the elementary school through high school level, as well.
And I think in Hawkins County, like a lot of schools, there was integration that was happening gradually,
in some cases grade by grade. and so, I think that the high school building… the high school classes
might have been segregated through the early 1960s. I don't know that for sure, but that might be one
possibility as to why it was still being used. I would love to see the building in real life. the photos are
just…
�72
William Dennis
Rogersville, Tennessee
2012
I went to Swift, I think it was ’55. But the things that I remember up there was awesome, like May Day
when all the girls would dress up and had they had the steps they would come down to the front, and all
the guys would go, “Ohhh” and look at them. Looking at them, you know, cuz they’re coming down the
steps. You know, do something, maybe pull one of them’s hair or something to make them want to hit
you upside the head. But it was awesome. And the atmosphere was different because see, I had just
come out of a grade school, but this was a grade school here. But yet and still, the way the people acted,
and you found certain girls you’d want to follow and you go, “Yeah man. She’s a beautiful girl.” All that
good stuff.
Looking back on it, it was really an adventure. I wouldn’t trade it because you know, well, I can’t trade it.
But it was awesome. Because the people there, and you know, certain girls were from out of town, and
you got to flirt with them. We had sports. I didn’t play football too well because I was always getting in
the way or doing something wrong. I remember this guy called Richard Bristol. I don’t even know how I
remember him. He was a big ole guy, and he said, every time we’d get down the line to do something…
He gets a handful of dirt and throws it at your eyes, and you close your eyes. You’d say, “I’m gonna stop
him. I’m gonna get a rock.” I had it in my hand, and I hit him upside the head. Blood started flying. Things
like that I remember from when I was there.
The teachers were really essential to the educational part of it. Being an all black school. But yet still, the
foundation that was planted there was a really good foundation that we could endure and keep for
years, but yet, we can build on it. We had a… it wasn’t like the real basic education, but it was kind of
like a foundation that you could walk in through Swift. And it was an awesome situation because I
learned a lot, even though I didn’t put it all in practice, but later on in life it had been part built into me.
“He was kind of quiet. Billy Galbreth did all of the talking.” - Etta Snapp-Fanny
The Fugate guys were pretty loud. All in all, I did have a girlfriend, too.
I really enjoyed it and I’m thinking that this memorial here is a testament to… that people know in the
days they did have a foundation, and its not going to go away. We’re going to see many people that’s
gonna come up through something like this. …. Some educational background and say, “Hey, this did
happen to them, but it didn’t happen to us.” Even though we get in the high tech world right now, we
still can have the foundation [imperceptible].
I remember one time, I got an automobile. [imperceptible] It was an old A-model Ford. it was an 1929
A-model Ford. And you remember the Trammels? Johnny Trammel and all them? We were in that click
then, see. We were driving and he had one, but he called his The Jock, and it was painted red. And we’d
come on campus, you know. Well, behind the school. It had 4 doors , and 1 door handle. We had to
reach around and give the door handle to everybody, in order to get out. And all the guys and gals
wanted to get in that thing. We didn’t have brakes. They weren’t too good on it. What we did was we
took the water hose and wet the wheels down so it would grab when it got ready to stop. So that was a
fun time. I can remember all this, as a part of growing up at the school.
�
Dublin Core
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Title
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Swift Memorial Institute
Subject
The topic of the resource
Tennessee; African Americans--Appalachian Region; African Americans--Southern States; African American heritage; African American Education--Hawkins County--Rogersville; Education--Historically Black Colleges and Universities; African American--Oral Histories--Segregation; HBCU--Swift Memorial Institute
Description
An account of the resource
Materials Associated with the late HBCU (Historically Black College and University), primary and high school, Swift Memorial Institute that operated in Rogersville, Tennessee from 1883 to 1954.
Creator
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Black in Appalachia
Publisher
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Black in Appalachia
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Items can be used for private reflection and research, and not for commercial purposes.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
United States--Tennessee--Hawkins County--Rogersville
Contributor
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University of Tennessee, Swift Museum, William Isom II
Dublin Core
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Title
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Swift Memorial Institute: Interview Transcriptions
Subject
The topic of the resource
Tennessee; African Americans--Appalachian Region; African Americans--Southern States; African American heritage; African American Education--Hawkins County--Rogersville; Education--Historically Black Colleges and Universities; African American--Oral Histories--Segregation
Description
An account of the resource
Transcribed interviews with Swift Memorial Institute Alumni & Scholars on the founding & development of Black higher education in Rogersville, Tennessee and across the state of Tennessee.
Interviewees include:
Betty Watterson-Fugate, Dr. Bobby Lovett, Carolyn Trammell-Cox, Catherine Snapp-Howard, Charles W Hargrave, Dessa Edyth Parkey-Blair, Imogene Trammel-Fugate, Josephine Snapp-Francisco-Wills, Lester Lamon, Lois Goins, Lollie Mae McKinney-Surratt, Margaret Clark-Delaney, Norma Jean Cope, Pat Snapp-Charles, Robert J Booker, Ruth Sharp-Ben, Sandy Durham, Stella Gudger, Wayne Fain, William Bogart, William Dennis
Creator
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Black in Appalachia
Publisher
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Black in Appalachia
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2012 to 2014
Contributor
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William Isom II, Amira Sakalla & Wilson Library, University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Items can be used for private reflection and research, and not for commercial purposes.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
United States--Tennessee--Hawkins County--Rogersville
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39829c8141ce742fddca026ce0e171f0
PDF Text
Text
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Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Swift Memorial Institute
Subject
The topic of the resource
Tennessee; African Americans--Appalachian Region; African Americans--Southern States; African American heritage; African American Education--Hawkins County--Rogersville; Education--Historically Black Colleges and Universities; African American--Oral Histories--Segregation; HBCU--Swift Memorial Institute
Description
An account of the resource
Materials Associated with the late HBCU (Historically Black College and University), primary and high school, Swift Memorial Institute that operated in Rogersville, Tennessee from 1883 to 1954.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Black in Appalachia
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Black in Appalachia
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Items can be used for private reflection and research, and not for commercial purposes.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
United States--Tennessee--Hawkins County--Rogersville
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
University of Tennessee, Swift Museum, William Isom II
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Swift College Catalogue, 1900-1901
Subject
The topic of the resource
Tennessee; African Americans--Appalachian Region; African Americans--Southern States; African American heritage; African American Education--Hawkins County--Rogersville; Education--Historically Black Colleges and Universities; African American--College Catalogues; Southern States--Tennessee--Hawkins County--Rogersville
Description
An account of the resource
College Catalogue from late Historically Black College, Swift Memorial Institute once located in Rogersville, Tennessee and operated by the Presbyterian Church from 1883 to 1954.
Names included in this document:
---FACULTY---
William H. Franklin, Principal
Jonathan R. Baker, Normal Department
Annie L. Enos, Grammar Department
Delia G. Holmes, Intermediate Department
Emily P. Jones, Primary Department
Laura C. Franklin, Assistant Principal
Henrietta V. Mabry, Music Teacher
Lottie M. Enos, Sewing Department and Sub Primary
---STUDENTS---
--Sub-Primary--
Armstong, Florence
Armstrong, Harrington
Brown, Willie
Bradley, Willie
Bradley, Hector
Carmichael, Fred
Carmack, Herbert
Chestnut, Willie
Chambers, Elizah
Charles, Gracie
Chestnut, Lemmie
Chambers, Margaret
Carr, Alice
Fain, Jennie
Fain, Clifton
Francisco, Johnnie
Fulkerson, Tommie
Green, Roy
Green, Taylor
Green, Edward
Gaines, Arthur
Gaines, R. Annie
Gray, Lillie
Green, Nollie
Horton, Katie
Horton, Annie
Howard, Brooks
Hale, Johnnie
Jones, L. Annie
Kinchelor, Emma
Kyle, Lennie
Kyle, Carrie
Kyle, Willie
Kelly, Cassie
Kinchelor, Chestnut
Lyons, Hugh
Lyons, Robert
Lee, Roy
Lee, Elise
Lyons, Rosie
McKinney, M. Francis
Mitchel, Gale
Pearson, Gale
Pearson, John
Pearson, Robert
Richard, Henry
Ross, Edward
Rogers, Maggie
Sensibaugh, Annie
Sensibaugh, Horace
Shypes, Sallie
Sypes, Ella
Scott, B. Lue
Starnes, Mary
Willis, B. Mary
Watterson, Francis
Wolfe, Jimmie
Williams, Eldridge
Watterson, Ancrom
Watterson, Roy
--First Grade--
Alexander, Luther
Alexander, Edward
Bradley, Harry
Bradley, Ancrom
Cain, Ethel
Charles, Rosa
Carmichael, Kate L.
Cope, Matilda
Carmack, Willie
Carmack, James
Fleming Cora (Knoxville)
Green, John
Gaines, Mollie
Heiskell, Willie
Irving, Hattie
Irving, Georgie
Kyle, John
Lyons, James
McKinney, Grace
Starnes, Fred
Spears, George
Sensibaugh, James
Spears, Allie
Spears, Mollie
Talmage, Watterson
Williams, Emma
Wells, Annie
Wolfe, Sadie (Mossy Creek)
--Second Grade--
Archie, Minnie
Barnes, John
Bradley, George
Brice, Conelius
Cain, Diana
Charles, Robert
Cope, Andrew
Caldwell, Clinton
Delaney, Solomon
Fuget, James
Fain, Charles
Fain, Hugh
Green, Minnie
Hamblen, Joseph
Horton, Willie
Johnson, Frank
Fleming, Nellie (Knoxville)
Kyle, Adelaide
Kyle, Irwin
Lea, Willie
Lyons, Noricy
Lyons, Walter
Lyons, Willis
Lyons, Berdie
Lyons, Elsie
Lyons, Katie
Morton, Juan Nita
Miller, Luther
McKinney, Willie
Payne, Eldridge
Russell, Charles
Watterson, Sadie
Wolfe, Lloyd
--Third Grade--
Anderson, Florence
Bradley, Rosa
Brice, Nora
Brice, Earnest
Brice, Fred
Bradley, Jennie
Cain, Maggie
Fain, Eddie
Fugate, Tennie
Fulkerson, Samuel
Fulkerson, Abitha
Green, Etta
Gunn, Martha
Howard, Josie
Hale, Annie
Jones, Anna M.
Kyle, Sue Mabel
Kyle, Annie
Kyle, Fannie B.
Kyle, Hugh W.
Kyle, Willie
Lyons, Irene
Lyons, Mary A.
Lyons, Walter
Lyons, Elsie
Miller, Mollie
McKinney, May
Netherland, Jennie
Netherland, Nelson
Neal, Georgia
Ross, Robert
Ross, Richard
Richmond, Willie
Spears, Lawrence
Simpson, Fannie
Weems, Hattie
Watterson, Mollie
Wolfe, John
Wadkins, Ida (St. Clair)
Wadkins, Alfred (St. Clair)
--Fourth Grade--
Armstrong, Anna M. (Rogersville)
Bradley, Nannie (Rogersville)
Bradley, Maxie (Solitude)
Carmichael, Laura (Rogersville)
Carr, George (Rogersville)
Cochraham, Samuel (St.Clair)
Edwards, Magnolia (Chattanooga)
Francisco, Jessica (Rogersville)
Fugate, Tennie (Rogersville)
Johnson, Minnie (Rogersville)
Kyle, Belle (Rogersville)
Keys, Mary E. (Bristol)
Leiper, Addie (Morristown)
Russell, Efiie (Atlanta, GA)
Richie, Maud (Jonesville, VA)
Rogers, Emma (Rogersville)
Sevier, Bonnie (Greeneville)
Thompson, Mary (Knoxville)
Turk, Della (Mossy Creek)
Williams, Frank (Mossy Creek)
Wolfe, Estella (Rogersville)
Wilson, Emma (Maryville)
Wolfe, Ella (Rogersville)
Wolfe, Bertha (Rogersville)
--Grammar Department--
--First Year--
Brice, Lemah (Rogersville)
Bradford, Nellie (Dandridge)
Bradford, Georgianna (Dandridge)
Chestnut, Annis (Rogersville)
Duff, Lucy (Stickleysville, VA)
Dougans, Grant (Jacksonville, FL)
Endarley, Jordan (Dandridge)
Fenderson, Edward (Rogersville)
Fulkerson, Frank (Rogersville)
Fain, Nollie (Dandridge)
Inman, Shade (Dandridge)
Kite, Gertrude (Rogersville)
Kyle, Mollie (Rogersville)
Lea, Mary (Rogersville)
Lea, Annis (Rogersville)
Miller, Julia (Rogersville)
Miller, James (Knoxville)
McKinney, Alfred (Rogersville)
Netherland, Nelson (Dandridge)
Rice, Richard (Russellville)
Redman, Flora (Dandridge)
Smith, Lucy (Knoxville)
Watterson, Samuel (Rogersville)
Watterson, Edward (Rogersville)
Wadkins, Minerva (St. Clair)
--Second Year--
Cooper, Fannie (Stony Point)
Cochraham, Mary (St. Clair)
Kite, Ollie (Rogersville)
Lyons, Sarah (Rogersville)
Leeper, Della (Morristown)
Lathrum, William (Hendersonville, NC)
McGee, Hazel (Greeneville)
Netherland, Bessie (Rogersville)
Hodge, Willie (Mossy Creek)
Ross, Katie (Rogersville)
Ross, Laura (Rogersville)
Scott, Amy (Knoxville)
Snapp, William (Dandridge)
Sullivan, William (Hendersonville, NC)
Watterson, Bessie (Rogersville)
--Normal Department--
--First Year--
Bradley, Rosa C. (Rogersville)
Bradley, H.G. (Upper Clinch)
Cleckley, Bertha O. (Orangeburg, SC)
Cochraham, Lady Kate (St. Clair)
Floyd, Myrtle H. (Rogersville)
Green, India A. (Dalton, GA)
Gammons, Walter L. (Dandridge)
Hannum, Bertha L. (Maryville)
McGhee, Adrian E. (Greeneville)
Netherland, Anthony H. (Rogersville)
Twitty, Pearl E. (Greeneville)
Vance, Harriet J. (Strawberry Plains)
Wolfe, George B. (Rogersville)
--Second Year--
Cochraham, Alfred F. (Rogersville Junction)
Martin, James L. (Jonesville, VA)
Laffell, George A. (Sevierville)
Warren, Rosa (Louisville)
--High School--
--First Year--
Pennington, J.W. (Greeneville)
--Second Year--
Williams, Ella (Knoxville)
Watterson, Mary C. (Rogersville)
--Teachers’ Course--
--First Year--
Cochraham, Cornelia G. (Bulls Gap)
Johnson, Melissa (Rogersville)
Forgie, Sadie (Rogersville)
Brice, Paralee (Rogersville)
--Normal Graduates--
--1895--
Armstrong, Nannie (Rogersville)
Chance, Isaac (New Market)
Cochraham, Paralee (St. Clair)
--1896--
Flack, P.M. (Alexander, NC)
Hall, Maggie (Maryville)
Hurse, Robert (Maryville)
Lawrence, Leonora (Columbia)
--1897--
Brice, J. Houston (Rogersville)
Brice, James (Rogersville)
Brice, Paralee (Rogersville)
Cochraham, Lizzie (St. Clair)
Kennedy, Mattie (Maryville)
Snapp, R.A. (Dandridge)
--1898--
Bradley, James (Rogersville)
Eaton, Ada (Bean Station)
Fain, Lida (Rogersville)
Johnson, Melissa (Rogersville)
Miller, Robert C. (Washington DC)
Netherland, Maggie (Rogersville)
Netherland, Lillie (Rogersville)
Sevier, Lectia (Greeneville)
Watterson, Rachel (Stony Point)
Watterson, Mary (Rogersville)
--1899--
Bradley, Estella (New Market)
Forgie, Sadie (Rogersville)
Woodward, Lucy (Maryville)
Warren, Octavia (Louisville)
--1900--
Bradley, W.O. (Rogersville)
Ross, John (Rogersville)
Pennington, J.W. (Greeneville)
--1901--
Martin, James (Jonesville, VA)
Warren, Rosa (Lousiville)
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Swift Memorial Institute
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
University of Tennessee: Annual Catalogue of the Swift Memorial Junior College of Tennessee ... with Announcements for ... Rogersville, Tenn: The College, 1919. Print.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Black in Appalachia
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1900 - 1901
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Items can be used for private reflection and research, and not for commercial purposes.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
United States--Tennessee--Hawkins County--Rogersville
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Dessa Edyth Parkey Blair
Sevierville, Tennessee
2012
I came from the little poor town, County rather, Hancock County in Tennessee. Sneedville was
the county seat, but my post office was in Tazewell, Tennessee. I was born in Hancock County
and we lived in an all-white neighborhood. My father's family and my grandfather's family were
the only families in the little country neighborhood. We did not have school or Church in our
community, so of course you didn't integrate with the whites at that time. My father taught me at
home, grades one through four. He carved me my alphabets on a wooden paddle. There were
six of us, eventually and that was so that the others could use that same paddle to learn their
alphabet, so when they became of age. And for the extra reading, we read the newspaper that
was plastered on the walls, to clean up the room, you know. I was very inquisitive and was
always asking questions about letters and whatever was on the wall. Now short, they are trying
to make this short. In Hancock County, they had six families on the fringes of Claiborne and
Hancock. So they went across the Hancock and Claiborne line and went to the Claiborne
County school. So was my aunt, her property bordered the county line. Hancock and Claiborne.
What I'm about to tell you is that I stayed with my aunt Pearlee and went to the Claiborne
County school elementary school and in the fourth grade. And my father being a veteran of
World War I in the years from 1914 and 1918. So he met the courts in Sneedville, Tennessee,
often, until he could get a black school erected on the border of Hancock and Claiborne. Then
we were able to walk five miles to school every day. Of course the other Black children are on
the line, down there at Hoop Creek, and they didn’t have far to walk. We had five miles to walk
to school.
Now, so I started in fourth grade, there at the new school erected. And a white guy who was a
Parkey and we were Parkeys. I'm sure slavery thing, a slave thing somewhere way back in
history, because there's a lot of Blacks and whites who have the same names. Anyway, I went
to fourth grade in the newly erected school, in the black neighborhood on the fringes of the
county line. So from there, I went to the school my dad was lucky enough to have built. I, okay, I
did the fourth grade. My teacher skipped me from the fifth grade. From the fourth grade to the
sixth grade. When I got in the sixth grade, the county was so poor they closed the schools. We
didn't get but five months of school that year from that County. But in the meantime, while I was
saying with Aunt Pearlee, at the school the school teacher was walking with us, staying with my
Aunt also, to the Claiborne County elementary school. By then, he was coming from Kentucky in
a one-seater car and he was taking the good road around to the school then. So then, my Dad
approached him and he took three of us, all three of us in that one-seater car to his school. Who
was my first teacher in the beginning, when I was staying with Aunt Pearlee.
Okay I got through that, you know, then I went to Middlesboro, Kentucky and finished high
school there. Then I went to Rogersville for my first year in college. Only went one year. I didn't
stay on campus. I stayed in the city, so I don't know a lot about the campus life and that kind of
�thing. But anyway, I was successful in going there and I got a prize for being the best all-around
student in the college department there. Okay so we didn't have to pay every year in tuition.
Tuition there. So, I was only there one year and then I went to Morristown College and got my
other year in junior college.
But where Swift comes in the most for me, is in my elementary years at the new school that my
dad had, it was successful in getting built, all of my teachers, every last one of them came from
Swift. Now that's where I got impressed and taught for real. Black women couldn't do anything
much but teach school, then. And I was so impressed with them and i just admired them. And I
wanted to be like them. And from an early childhood on, my dream was to be a school teacher.
And I got the best education and foundation from those teachers that came from Rogersville. I
compare them with anybody. I went to Morristown College, I graduated from Knoxville College
as valedictorian. I went to University of Tennessee and received a masters. I will compare those
teachers with the will and the skill, of being the best. Now that's how I feel.
The cheapest place I could go and the closest place. Because they really wanted us at home at
that age. Now the later ones were not quite. As my younger sisters came along, ten years later,
from us the first four. And those new ones that came in, they were not as apt as the ones I had.
I have to say that too. We went to (Hoop Creek) for church. I wrote a whole article about that,
about being we had to go there for church.
William Isom: I’d heard about students having to ride the bus from Hoop Creek to Morristown to
go to school.
They did at that time. They rode the bus all the way across that mountain (Clinch Mountain).
Sneedville. Across that mounatain to Morristown Junior College everyday. Everyday. They did
that. My younger cousins. But they were in Claiborne County. They didn’t have any bus, they
didn’t have a set up for that. But that was after they started putting a bigger emphasis on
integrating. That's what caused that, they finally cut it out. But that's a long bumpy ride, over that
mountain everyday. I’m glad I didn’t have to do that. It’d beat you to death.
From Swift, I was an elementary student major, I had very good teachers there, very good
teachers there. But most of my influence came from those teachers that were trained in
Rogersville. That's where most of my influence comes from. And they didn't have to do much to
me, I was all excited about. In fact, I just had a vision. Teaching was my divine calling from out
of those hills and only by the grace of God could you get out of those hills and get an education,
if you had a Black face. That’s the way it was.
But it so happened my dad was a very bright guy, multi-talented. Had more to offer the little
country community than any other one person living there, because he was so talented;
blacksmith, gunsmith, watchsmith, all those things. Plus, he was a good manager. I was reared
on a 66 acre farm and there were six of us, all of them are gone, but with two and we still own it.
Got a nice young white family living in it with about two or three little children and their mother,
�her mother is living in my Aunt Pearlee’s house, where I stayed, with the teacher and walked to
Claiborne county school. Hoop Creek.
That's my story. I've got several stories, the News Sentinel put out one. Up in Tazewell, they've
got the story about the Hoop Creek thing. About my going to Hoop Creek and about this white
McNeil family that gave the church, way back when. The house that also became the school
house. And then as life went on ,we had some old-timey deacons there and we were selling,
you know, to buy extra things for the school, blah blah blah. And there was a division about it.
So they gave it up and had a school built in the center of the Hoop Creek community. And that
was built about 1945. And then the church stayed there for a while and it became dilapidated.
And as old spiritual we used to say about, “this building that's got a leak and we got to move, so
that's what we did. To the center of Hook Creek again. And when they got the new building built
and everything, I was some kind of speaker for this new building that they built. Because my
daddy had done so much for it, being a carpenter as he was.
I think of how, how could've I missed this. My pastor says all the time, “Oh you missed it. Let me
come again. How can I missed it?” My dad he spent four years in the military and then he went
to West Virginia and stayed with his sister and worked in the mines and all that kind of thing. I
said “Why in the world did you come back up here in this hollar, when you knew there was no
school for children?” But his father gave him two acres of land. He built a house on it then. And
when he and my mother married, he moved into his house. Because he was not going give half
of his earnings to the sharecropper. He was not and he taught that hard to us. There was not
but one of us that rented for a little while. Every one of us, when we married we had our own
house. Every one of us. Except Hazel, she probably rented about 6 months and then my
parents helped her buy. My dad. Is the main person here. Plus the man above. Look, that's my
story.
Do you know Goins? I mean lives in Rogersville. He goes back and forth to Sneedville up there.
He's a renowned author. Yeah buddy. I wrote, well that was a lady up there, from Sneedville first
wrote this story that I'm telling you. Jack wrote me a letter and had me crying. He said they lived
close to Sneedville, see and they were as poor as Job’s Turkey or something of that kind. And
as far as he could see, Lawrence Parkey was the most intelligent man at the head in the
County. And he wrote me a letter describing the situation and whatnot. And then I called him
about a year ago and he was still over there in Sneedville and I wrote my story also in the
history of Hancock County book. You can get that in Sneedville, Tennessee, too. I didn't know
anything about Hancock County, Volume One. I didn't even know they had it. So the white
family next year, we were just like family. She wrote and said, they’re writing this book, putting
another book out about us. You need to put Lawrence and Roxie in there. I said “I sure do.” So I
didn't even know the book was out or they were doing that or anything. So I caught Volume 2. I
was in Knoxville and we were going to a meeting, over here in right out from Tazewell over
there at the school. And they had this book one in the library there. First time I've seen it, you
know. Hancock County, you know. My Lord there wasn’t a Black face in it nowhere. Nowhere.
And said, well, I declare. But I didn’t know they were going to do a second one or anything, but
�my neighbor from home, said “Hey. You need to put Lawrence and Roxie in that book. And
they’re in there. All of us are in there. Short article. And it’s called The History of Hancock
County, or something. Volume 2 now. I missed One, I didn’t know it existed.
“You should write a book.”
Oh they tell me that everytime i tell that story. It is something to behold. You know, I could have
missed it Ruth.
“You should write a book. Who are you going to pass it down to?”
I got several articles around and about. You know Fred Bedell, was the superintendent during
that time in the integrated school (in Knoxville)
Because of the sulfur springs and all that was around it. That’s where I got my mouth and my
boldness from, my Dad. Because when he met those courts and I told them he fought for four
years for all of them, for freedom of all of them. And his children have nowhere to go to school,
something wrong with that. So we got a new school. He had a lot of influence anyway. He
wasn't afraid to stand up and speak for right, I don't care whether it was in the schoolhouse or
the church house or my house. Tell it like it is.
I would just like to say, the competition was very strong there (at Swift College). When I was
there, we had two brothers, Gene Grey. You might have heard of Gene Grey that helped
desegregate the University of Tennessee. And they were brothers and myself my sister was
there when I was there. And you talk about competition. Oh the competition was strong, but it
was the healthy kind. They were good students, Gene was a real good student in chemistry and
all that. And everybody is trying to beat each other, in that way. But now you try to outdo
somebody now, they’ll call you all kinds of names. I mean it's prevalent. Sometimes students
don't want folks to know that they’re doing well and acelling. Because of the “Nerd” and all that
crazy stuff. I don't know where they came. From Mars or somewhere.
�
Dublin Core
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Swift Memorial Institute
Subject
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Tennessee; African Americans--Appalachian Region; African Americans--Southern States; African American heritage; African American Education--Hawkins County--Rogersville; Education--Historically Black Colleges and Universities; African American--Oral Histories--Segregation; HBCU--Swift Memorial Institute
Description
An account of the resource
Materials Associated with the late HBCU (Historically Black College and University), primary and high school, Swift Memorial Institute that operated in Rogersville, Tennessee from 1883 to 1954.
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Black in Appalachia
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Black in Appalachia
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United States--Tennessee--Hawkins County--Rogersville
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University of Tennessee, Swift Museum, William Isom II
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Dessa Edyth Parkey-Blair: Interview #2
Subject
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Tennessee; African Americans--Appalachian Region; African Americans--Southern States; African American heritage; African American Education--Hawkins County--Rogersville; Education--Historically Black Colleges and Universities; African American--Oral Histories--Segregation; Tennessee--Hancock County--Sulphur Hollow; Tennessee--Claiborne County--Hoop Creek; Kentucky--Bell County--Middlesborough; HBCU--Morristown College; HBCU--Knoxville College; HBCU--Swift Memorial Institute
Description
An account of the resource
Interview with Hancock County native, Dessa Edyth Parkey-Blair about her experiences growing up on the border of Hancock & Claiborne Counties. She details the life and work of her father, Lawrence Parkey, in the community and the development of educational facilities in Sulphur Hollow. Interview was conducted at the "Great Golden Gathering" reunion in Sevierville, Tennessee. The Great Golden Gathering is a reunion of Black schools that were once in Northeast Tennessee and Southwestern Virginia during segregation.
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Black in Appalachia
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Dessa Edyth Parkey-Blair
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Black in Appalachia
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2012
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William Isom II, Amira Sakalla & Wilson Library, University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill
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Text
Bobby Lovett
Nashville, Tennessee
2014
My name is Bobby l love it PhD professor of history (retired) Tennessee State University.
Before the Civil War, Black educational opportunities for Negroes were almost non-existent.
Free Negroes in Nashville did operate some classes and schools clandestinely, between 1833
and 1857, until they were shut down by vigilantes and January of 1857, because of recent race
riots in the city of Nashville. Ninety percent of the slaves therefore were illiterate. Perhaps ten
percent of them could read and write a little bit. Where masters often had to teach them some
degree of literacy in those skilled trades, because about 10 percent of the slaves were urban
and they ran errands for their masters. They worked in their shops in their offices and so on. So
about 10 percent of the slaves, we estimate could read and write a little bit, but illiteracy was not
unusual in Tennessee in antebellum times. More than half of the people in the state couldn't
read and write, therefore it was forbidden for slaves to learn to read and write in their day and
time.
However, at least two institutions in the state of Tennessee, in higher education, included some
Black students. Maryville college as early as the 1830s and Franklin College outside of
Nashville by 1855 to 1860, allowed a few free Negroes to attend classes here. It was mostly a
manual labor College, however so it was not a liberal arts based college like Maryville and it
was also religious instruction, just like Mayville College had mostly religious instruction. So there
was very little elementary secondary high high school or college education available to African
Americans before the Civil War. However African Americans comprised 26% of Tennesseans by
1860 and so, for one-fourth of the population education was almost forbidden to them until the
Civil War.
The coming of the Civil War really was the opening chapter of Black education in Tennessee.
As soon as the Union occupation began in Nashville in 1862, free Negroes reopened those
schools that had been closed in 1857. Small classes, thirty, forty, fifty students. And one of the
teachers of the first of those schools to be opened was a man by the name of Daniel Wadkins.
Wadkins had been one of those teachers that ran the antebellum, free Negro classes
clandestinely back in the 1850s. And when the Union came to town, the Union Army, they were
able to restart some of those particular classes. They were private. You had to pay a few cents
to go to those particular schools. But in 1863/64 northern missionaries began to come down into
the occupied parts of the south and the first things they did were to establish schools for these
freedmen who were now living in camps, contraband camps. For example, over in East
Nashville which was called Edgefield out in South Nashville called Edgehill contraband camp
and a big contraband camp out in the western section of Nashville, where incidentally this free
school began in 1865 in that contraband camp. And so by 1864 65 with the establishment of
contraband camps across Tennessee, northern missionaries are now coming with clothing.
�They're coming with food and medicine. They're coming, of course, with Bibles, but they're also
coming with books to teach the slaves, adult and children, how to do the alphabets, how to read
and write. And so the period between 1862 to 1865 during the Civil War is the beginning of the
spread of Education to all Black Tennesseans, at that time.
A contraband camp was a place that consisted of tents and log cabins, temporary structures,
where slaves who had ran away from the farms and the plantations into the Union camps were
housed. Because by 1862 so many slaves were escaping the plantations and the farms in the
center of the battlefields Virginia and Tennessee especially. That the Union had to pass a act
called the Confiscation Act in 1861, that justified the Union Army keeping those runaway slaves
instead of returning them to their owners, as the 1850 Fugitive Slave Law provided. The Union
is now saying these are weapons of war. Anything that is contraband, like today the war on
drugs, they can confiscate the drugs. They can confiscate the cars bought with the drugs. They
can confiscate the houses, today, and in the Civil War they could confiscate anything that was
used to make war against the United States. And so they declare fugitive slaves contraband if
their masters were in rebellion against the United States. So they asked the runaway slaves, “Is
your master fighting against us?” and the slave of course said, “Yes he's fighting against you
and he's in the Confederate Army.” and that was all that was needed for them to stay within the
Union camp. And so many thousands came, that in August 1862 in Grand Junction, Tennessee
the general in charge, Ulysses S Grant, asked one of the chaplains to begin to establish a place
to keep these people. Because winter was coming, fall was coming, winter was coming. They
had no clothing on. They had no shoes. They had no houses to live in. They had no food. These
were women and children and babies and Men, as well. And so they started the contraband
camps in the fall of 1862. They spread out across Tennessee. They spread out across the
Mississippi Valley. Anywhere that the Union Army was in occupation, they had to establish
these camps in order to house all these runaway people.
The Civil War, as far as African Americans are concerned, closed with the ratification of the
Thirteenth Amendment, December 18th, 1865. Which prohibits slavery now throughout the
United States. African Americans are free everywhere in the United States as of December 18th
1865 at the same time, in Tennessee, that 26 percent of Blacks out of all Tennesseans. Blacks,
they have been freed by the state of Tennessee. On February 22nd, 1865 the Tennessee
Constitutional Convention recommends that slavery be abolished in Tennessee. Secondly that
Constitutional Convention recommends the repeal of the 1835 constitutions section that
protected slavery and thirdly it recommended that the Ordinance of Secession which had been
passed by the Tennessee General Assembly in June, 1861 be repealed. On March 5th, 1865
the people went to the polls and they voted. All men at that time, they vote on those proposed
changes and they approve all of them and consequently on the 5th of March, slavery is officially
ended in the state of Tennessee. On April 5th, a month later they inaugurate the first civilian
governor since 1861 and that is the man from East Tennessee, Parson Warren G Brownlow
becomes governor and they and the legislature of Tennessee, the General Assembly, they
approve on that day the ratification by Tennessee of the 13th amendment to the Constitution.
Which will eradicate slavery throughout the country. Tennessee is one of the first states to ratify
�that amendment. You're going to need 23 states to ratify it in 1865. And that number of states
ratified the amendment on December 18th, 1865. Eventually all the other 33 states ratified
except three or four. Kentucky didn't ratify until 1891. Kentucky was a tough state whole nother
story as far as slavery and civil war secession was concerned. A whole another complex story
but they do eventually ratified. Tennessee is one of the first. The last state to ratify was the state
of Mississippi. And the state of Mississippi did not ratify the amendment that freed the slaves
until January 2013, just recently. That Mississippi finally ratified the 13th amendment to the
Constitution. It has been a national story. You know, because everybody thought that everybody
agreed that slavery was over in the United States. There's one state that did not agree and that
state finally with the help of the Black legislative caucus in Mississippi passed the ratification in
1996 but until 2013, it was not sent to Congress. You have to send the amendment to the two
houses. You send the amendment to the Secretary of State and you send the amendment to
the US register who records it and so on. And Mississippi said the secretary of state of
Mississippi overlooked that in 1996 and somebody reminded them, a college professor at
Southern Mississippi University that it was not in the US register. And then they looked and
found sure enough the man didn't send it in and as a result, technically Mississippi did not ratify
until January 2013.
Well Jim Crow laws, as one historian C Vann Woodard points out, had their origins at
Antebellum times. There were no specific laws before the Civil War that said Blacks could not
go eat here or they couldn't stay in this hotel, a lunchroom. But there were what we call Black
Codes before the Civil War, for example, in Nashville. German immigrants had the City Council
to pass a city code that said free Negroes and slaves could not engage in the butchering
business that was dominated by German immigrants. Nashville was a big slaughterhouse and
processed meat here until recent times off of the river. There were other laws that said a Negro
free or slave could not own a freight wagon. Free Negroes could own hacks which today we call
taxi cabs, but they couldn't engage the wealthy trade of heavy freight on the river, on the
wagons. And so European immigrants had those kinds of laws pushed through. There were
curfews for Blacks during the antebellum times in Tennessee, but not for whites. So laws that
discriminated between the races, we call Jim Crow laws. And there were Jim Crow laws
according to the way you look at it before the Civil War. But after the Civil War the whites have
to decide what do we do with 26% of the population, most of them former slaves. They're all of
African descent. Do we integrate them into society like when the Germans arrived in the thirties
and the forties 1830s and 40s, when the Jews arrived in 1790s in Tennessee, when the Irish
began to come in droves to Tennessee, especially Memphis in the 1850s? Do we just
assimilate them into society? Or do we have to do something different?
Luckily they decided that they would not do to the Negro what they had done to the Native
Americans. 1830 President Jackson and the Congress had removed these people from
Tennessee. Removed them from Georgia, from Alabama, from Florida, from Louisiana from
Mississippi, the Choctaw. And made them march all the way out to a reservation and what today
is Oklahoma. So Native Americans had been not only segregated from the rest of society, they
had been excluded from the rest of society.
�And there were proposals during the Civil War, including coming through President Lincoln’s
office, to colonize the freed slaves somewhere else; Central America, West Indies, Latin
America, Mexico, outside of the United States. But the final decision was made to free the
slaves in the United States, December 18, 1865. But now what do you do? He's a freed man, he
has no rights, can't vote, can't sue, he owns no land. What do you do with him? And so in 1866
Congress proposed a new amendment and that is the 14th amendment to the Constitution.
Finally ratified took two years to get agreement in 1868 and that provided that anybody born in
the United States is hereby a citizen of the United States. They didn’t use race, but they're
talking about the former slaves. All that four and a half million people are now citizens of the
United States, just like that. With one sentence, all persons born in the United States are hereby
citizens of the United States and they are to be given equal protection of the laws.
The third part of the amendment, due process of the law. You can't do anything to him unless
you put him in jail or whatever, unless you do it according to the due process of law. Says that
particular amendment. And so by 1868 he is a citizen and Tennessee has already agreed to this
in 1866. He's now not just freed; he's a citizen of the state of Tennessee, by 1866. But now
legislators are debating how do we treat him. The Fourteenth Amendment says, “You got to
treat him equal.” But they develop “separate but equal”. They develop laws in the General
Assembly of Tennessee that are Jim Crow laws. The first one says a person of African descent,
and I'm paraphrasing, a person of African descent even a mixed-race, because 10% of the
slaves are mulatto half of the free Negroes are mulatto. Mulatto means, one of the parents is
white and one of the parents is Black. They are of mixed parentage. Even those persons cannot
marry a white person as they described it in that 1866 legislation. They also develop laws about
whether they can vote or not. And in Nashville and cities that have horse-drawn streetcars, they
provide that they must ride on the back of the streetcar, which are drawn by horses.
So the first Jim Crow laws are really passed as a reaction to the emancipation of these four and
a half million people that are living, many percent of them, in the fifteen southern former slave
states and former Confederate States. And this is a way to govern the races as people argue at
that time. In 1870, the Congress decides to deal with another problem. They propose the
Fifteenth Amendment to the Constitution, that all persons who are citizens of the United States
are guaranteed the right to vote. So the vote is protected and they are not mentioning race/color
in any of these national amendments, just as the founding fathers wisely and cleverly did not
mention white Black race, anything of color in the original Constitution. They simply say all
citizens in the United States have the right to protection, of the right to vote. And that solves one
of the Jim Crow laws where they are trying to cut out former slaves from voting. For example:
Alabama, Mississippi, some others, passed the Jim Crow law that said you can vote but you
must take a test, a literacy test. You must prove you are intelligent, you can read and write so
when you came to register to vote they said read this and if you couldn't read it you were
ineligible to vote. So Congress was responding to things like that. However remember half of
Tennessee who are white, can't read and write. So they have a grandfather clause in Alabama
and Mississippi in these states, that says if your grandfather was a voter during the election of
�1860, that's when Lincoln was elected, then you are exempt from taking the literacy test. And of
course no Blacks in Tennessee were eligible to vote in 1860 because of the 1835 constitution of
Tennessee. It disenfranchised all of the free Negroes who had the right to vote. When
Tennessee became a state in 1795, they voted right up until 1835. So by 1860 none of them
were voting. No Blacks were voting. Certainly the slaves could not vote and therefore they will
be cut out from voting. So the Fifteenth Amendment of the National Constitution protected the
right to vote. That's the one that's under debate today because out of that amendment came the
1965 Voting Rights Act. Because the Fifteenth Amendment says Congress has the power to
detail, you know, right in the details Fifteenth Amendment is only three or four paragraphs.
Congress has the right to follow with legislation to effect this amendment. And of course, the
most comprehensive piece of legislation was in 1965 Voting Rights Act, which in 2014 is now
being debated and the Supreme Court is chipping away at that 1965 Voting Rights Act.
Whereas as I say, the Civil War as one great historian said in his recent book, “we're still fighting
the Civil War. We're still fighting the Civil War”. So in 1870, the Fifteenth Amendment protected
the right to vote and, specifically, is referring to the former slaves. These are all men now
because the women don't do not have the right to vote yet and they still are excluded, you know,
from the right to vote. But in 1870, Tennessee was redeemed. That is, the Democratic Party
was the pro secessionist party. The Democratic Party was the party of Andrew Jackson born in
the 1830s. The Democratic Party was the pro-slavery party. The Democratic Party is the party
that will fight Lincoln tooth and nail every step of the way and the federal government through
the time that he was president of the United States. And will oppose the Emancipation. But in
1870 they recaptured the state government from Warren G (Brownlow) from the governor and
the Republicans. And Tennessee became all Democratic and one of the first things the
Democrats did, they revised the constitution again and that is the 1870 Constitution which we
now use in the state of Tennessee. It was revised. It included a poll tax. It included that
anti-miscegenation law. They now put this into, not into legislative law, but into constitutional law
and the Democrats who control the state refuse to ratify the 15th amendment to the
Constitution. Tennessee, as I say to people in other places, don't laugh at Mississippi.
Tennessee did not ratify the 15th amendment to the Constitution of the United States until June
1992. Until June 1992. The only thing that protected Blacks' right to vote in the state of
Tennessee was the National law and the 1965 Voting Rights Act. As far as Tennessee was
concerned, they had no protection for the right to vote, until Tennessee decided to ratify that
amendment. Until in 1965 Right to Vote Act and of course Tennessee ratified the amendment in
1990, in 1992. So Jim Crow laws were racially discriminating laws that meant to keep the whites
and Blacks separate. But also to keep the Black Tennesseans subordinate. That they really
were according to Jim Crow laws not full-fledged citizens.
Well the 1901 law was meant to segregate Blacks and whites in higher education. Tennessee
had a law in 1867, that forbid the teaching and learning of students of white and Black race in
the same school. So school segregation was a state law in Tennessee 1867. But there was no
segregation of higher education and one of the reasons there was no segregation of higher
education, Tennessee had no state colleges. Northern states had them. There was Michigan.
�All of them had land-grant institutions, which were public colleges. Tennessee was still a
half-century behind. She had not a single higher education institution sponsored by the state
itself, so there was no public college in Tennessee. So they had never paid attention to that and
Tennessee will not have a public institution of higher education until the General Assembly
adopts a private school over in East Tennessee. East Tennessee University, which changed its
name to the University of Tennessee. And in 1907, Tennessee assumed control and finance of
that institution. That was the first state College for the state of Tennessee. Other than that,
Tennessee had not and then in 1909, two years later, the General Assembly passed a law to
create four public teachers colleges. Today they are: East Tennessee State University, Middle
Tennessee State University, University of Memphis and one for Blacks Tennessee State
University. Four of them were created, so by 1912 Tennessee had its first five public institutions
of higher education for its particular citizens.
So after the Civil War Maryville College which had always admitted a few Black students.
Franklin College in Nashville, which went out of business right after the Civil War in 1865, they
of course continued to admit Black students to their student bodies just as they had before. But
a case came before the United States Supreme Court in 1901 that had nothing to do with
Tennessee, it was Kentucky. And Kentucky’s Berea College had admitted Blacks from the very
beginning of his founding in 1855. In fact Berea College grew to be more Black students and
white students by the 1880s. Anti-slavery people had established it. And its Charter said it must
always be a biracial institution, so segregation was forbidden in the original charter a Berea.
However, Jim Crow is spreading across the south and Jim Crow advocates in Kentucky, they
put a bill through the General Assembly of Kentucky that you cannot have Blacks and whites
attending the same classes. And that was called the Day Law in Kentucky. So Berea has to
expel all the Black students. And Berea decides, Berea College sets up a separate school in
Louisville with some money to educate those students who, Lincoln Institute is what they called
it, named after President Lincoln. They called it Lincoln Institute over near Louisville, where the
Black students would be admitted and they can continue their education. Tennessee copies that
and in 1901, Tennessee has a Day Law that says students cannot attend class and schools in
the same place of opposite races and that includes private schools. This case, the Berea case,
the Maryville College case, similar cases, go all the way to the Supreme Court. Because Berea
College sues the state of Kentucky, that this is unconstitutional. These are private institutions,
these are not public institutions, these are private institutions. And the state does not have the
right or the power to come in and tell a store owner or to tell a college owner they have to
segregate their facility. But the United States Supreme Court in 1905 agreed. And in 1905 they
agreed that a state has the right to segregate its citizens even in private institutions. And
consequently after 1905, segregation of higher education institutions in Tennessee, it is legal it
is the practice during that particular time. At the same time remember Harvard and Yale and
Cornell and northern institutions are admitting Black students. The northern land-grant
institutions, since they were created in 1862 never excluded Blacks. They segregated them on
campus, but they did not exclude them from attending the institutions. Southern higher
education is going to segregate them from the institution period and they cannot, you know,
come on campus, live on the campus, attend classes or whatever. So the Jim Crow law of 1901
�was very harsh. Maryville College provides about $25,000 of its endowment money to establish
a school as Berea College did for the Blacks and that is Swift Memorial College which is a
private institution, but also supported by the Presbyterians just as Maryville College was
established. And with the segregation of Maryville College in 1905, the precedent is set in
Tennessee that there will be no colleges and universities that Blacks can attend other than
schools that are set up for Blacks. And by that time, there are about 10 or 12 private Black
institutions of higher education including Swift Memorial College, LeMoyne-Owen College in
Memphis, Fisk University in Nashville, Meharry Medical College in Nashville and several others
at that time. So you can go to a Black school, private, because the state of Tennessee has no
public institution for whites or Blacks by 1905. But Tennessee is given money to George
Peabody College for teachers in Nashville. Appropriations for the East Tennessee University the
University of Tennessee by that time and Black legislators argue that this is discrimination that is
against the Constitution of the United States. And so the General Assembly of Tennessee in
1880s, around 1880 to 83, they began to give scholarships to students who are Black in each
County, who want to go to a higher education institution and they can take that scholarship and
go to Fisk University or one of the other Black schools at the time. So there is some support for
Black higher education but the total number of students who were financed under that plan was
about less than 20 so there's no real access to higher education for Black Tennessee who still
make up, now, nearly 25% of the whole state's population by that particular time. And they will
make up nearly 21% of the population as late as World War I.
So one fourth of the population of Tennessee are excluded from higher education, financed by
the public, according to the Jim Crow laws of the state of Tennessee, but in 1909 the state
created four teacher colleges. And through some pressure they include a Black one for the
Blacks and that was Tennessee Agricultural and Industrial State Normal School. These were
two-year teacher training institutions in East Tennessee, Middle Tennessee, West Tennessee
for whites and one which was situated in Nashville for Blacks. And so Blacks get access but that
school is going to be discriminated against in terms of resources, in terms of curriculum. What it
can offer and what it can not offer in that school, so by 1941, 42 Blacks sue the state of
Tennessee. They sued in 1937 because they could go to Tennessee A&I State College, but
they couldn't go to graduate school at University of Tennessee. The only public graduate school
in the state of Tennessee, who was getting almost a million dollars a year now from the state of
Tennessee, they've got pharmacy, they've got engineering, they've got law, they've got
medicine. They've got all these graduate and professional programs, but Black Tennesseans
cannot attend the University of Tennessee. So in 1937, Tennessee A&I graduate, William B
Redmond, William B Redmond sued, with the help of the NAACP, in the state court. And the
state turned him down. Instead, what they did was they created an out-of-state scholarship
program for the state of Tennessee for any Black who wanted to go to University of Tennessee
for any subject that was not offered at Tennessee A&I. And so, in 1937 Tennessee began out of
state fellowships, where Blacks had to choose to go out of the state in order to attend another
school anywhere. He could go to the University of Michigan, and he could go to Howard
University. He could go anywhere he wanted, but he couldn't go to the University of Tennessee.
Those scholarships lasted until 1962. Tennessee was still passing out Jim Crow scholarships to
�those people. And Tennessee, in 1946-47, Tennessee under the leadership of the governor at
the time started appropriations to Meharry Medical College. Now they would give Meharry in
Nashville, the Black Medical College, money for students to attend who otherwise said they
wanted to go to UT Medical School, because Mr. Redmond sued to go to the pharmacy school
at UT, which was over in Memphis and he was turned down. Now you can go to Meharry and
the state of Tennessee gives them a scholarship. An appropriation, that they can handle those
particular students.
That saved Jim Crow for another, what, 14 years or so until Brown versus the Board of
Education in 1954, decreed that separate but equal, no matter how you put it, was
unconstitutional. That it was unconstitutional, whereas the court had said in the case of Plessy
versus Ferguson, a case out of Louisiana, that states could separate the races and it wasn't
unconstitutional. It was not a violation of the fourteenth amendment, as long as the state could
prove that they treated the races equal. In other words, if you gave whites a public school you
had to give Blacks a public school. If White's had a water fountain where they could stop and for
the convenience of drinking water in public, you had to have one for Blacks. If whites could ride
on a railroad train, then you had to provide a place where Blacks could ride. As long as you
treated them equally, then you could discriminate said the Supreme Court in 1896. But in 1954,
the US Supreme Court unanimously 9-0 said that is unconstitutional, because separate but
equal is inherently unequal. Because the people who are making the laws are not Blacks they're
whites. They are always going to make the law in their favor. They're always going to build a
better school for themselves. They're always going to have a better train car for themselves,
then for the Blacks or others. It's just inherently unequal.
And it's damaging to the child because they did psychological studies on little four and five six
year old kids, Black kids, and they asked them to take tests, you know. They asked Black kids in
the psychological test “which of these two pictures here is the prettiest person?” they always
picked out the white person. Which of these trees is a prettiest tree? Which tree looks like a
Black tree? They picked out a tree with dead leaves you know. They had been damaged by the
time they were 5 years old to believe that they were inferior and that the other side was
superior. That was the damaging effects of separate but equal. And as a result, in 1954, the
Supreme Court said we got to get rid of this and there's no halfway you know between it, where
you can say we're gonna give them the back of the bus and whites take the front of the bus and
so on. It was damaging only to them physically, but it was damaging to these young people
mentally. Generations of Black people were literally their, self-confidence, their image of
themselves was destroyed by Jim Crow. They still suffer from that legacy of slavery and Jim
Crow today. And you can look at that through the performance of Black students in the
classroom. Of the punitive nature of trying to govern them in the classroom. Of the differences in
the ACT and SAT score between Blacks and whites, and the differences of the percentage of
Blacks who have college degrees today, compared to the percentage of whites who have
college degrees all across the board. Today Jim Crow’s legacy and the legacy of slavery, as far
as education is concerned, still rings. We're still dealing with those particular legacies that affect
all of us whether they are Blacks or whites or Asians or whatever, because Jim Crow is
�embedded in the racism of the society and the only way you can get it out said one civil rights
leader in the 1960s and Nashville
You're gonna have to wash it and wash it and wash it and wash it some more before you can
cleanse the society. And that is still going on today. We're still washing and washing and
washing and it'll probably, in my opinion, be at least another hundred years before our American
society is cleansed. It's been a hundred and fifty years ago since slavery. As you can see it took
that long just to get beyond that particular legacy in the state of Tennessee and across the
United States. Finally, I'll say Jim Crow laws were laws, in other words, Jim Crow was what we
call in Latin “de jure”. In other words, it was legal racism. It can also be “de facto” and that is in
Latin, translating from Latin to to English “de facto” means “in fact”. In other words, it's not by
law but in fact, it does exist. In fact, people do practice it. So de jure segregation, it was
practiced as the norm. Now in the South they are practicing de jure racial segregation. This is a
law that says you got to sit on the back of the streetcar. You know you can't sit on the front of
the streetcar. Well in the North, it was de facto. You could not, in New York City, go and stay in
this hotel if you were Black. You could not go into this restaurant in New York City and eat if you
were Black. And there were certain schools in the North, in Pennsylvania, you could not go to
and New York. So in the north it was de facto which the Supreme Court in ‘54 couldn't deal with.
They can only deal with de jure, the legal segregation is unconstitutional. How do you deal with
the the segregation that’s de facto. So since 1954, we have still been washing and washing to
get rid of that. That's what the Supreme Court of 2014 is dealing with, that, in fact, these things
still exist in voting and so on and so on. They are not law now. Alabama doesn't have the
literacy test anymore and all of that, but it has disenfranchised half of all adult Negro men in the
state of Alabama. And it's done that through criminal injustice laws. If you have a record, you
can't vote. And there's no way for you to, what, to redeem your right to vote in Tennessee. You
can, what, redeem it. You can go and apply and petition and, what, regain your citizenship after
you have been, you know, a convicted criminal (acts) so on so on. If you want to, many of them
don't. So many people are still disenfranchised, which the Black Caucus is dealing with in the
state of Tennessee. Simply because they had a criminal record and Tennessee has adopted the
same Jim Crow laws as Alabama, as Mississippi and so on. Or you can do it in other ways. You
know you can, you know, move the voting places around. Tennessee does that. You can say
you are not allowed to vote anymore because your registration is expired. You’ve moved to
another place, you know, you have to re-register. If you move to another district and so on and
so on. I mean there are all kinds of de facto discrimination segregation laws. Or you have to you
have to show me ID. And so that is prolific across the country because many Black persons
don't have a permanent ID or driver's license cause they're moving around. They're the most
mobile population moving from one rental place to another rental place and so on and so on so.
We got them, they can't you know they can't vote, but the Supreme Court and they have agreed
they can't bother us because this is not legal, this is not a law. You know this is something we
do de facto.
What is important about education? Education is a liberating force. It liberates an individual,
who's nothing but an animal species. That's all we human beings are, but education transforms
�us into what it is to be human. That's what education does. So out of all other species on this
planet, have the same things we have, but what lifts us as human beings above other species is
a form of education that we receive. And that's why we call it ,in many places, liberal arts
education, because it's a liberating experience. If the person is really educated, then the person
is a changed person. That many people will go to school and go to colleges, universities and
they have diplomas and degrees that doesn't mean that they're an educated person. Because
education must transform the person, holistically. The whole person's got to be transformed. In
education. He knows and can do, in other words, what he knows is sacred knowledge, what he
can do; new skills, that other human beings and other species on this planet do not know and
cannot do. So a person who really wants to be educated hungers for that education. That's why
the slaves wanted to know how to read and write. Why is it that the master can read that piece
of paper, something on that piece of paper and he's saying something to another person and I
can't do that? So slaves just hungered, you know, to learn to read and write. How do you do
that? Because the most difficult thing for a human being, in my opinion, is to take a pen or a
pencil and put something on a piece of paper, out of their mind, and have another human being
look at the piece of paper and interpret it and understand exactly what they mean. It is the most
difficult form of human communication. So education is a liberating force. That's why today,
many conservatives and others are attacking the colleges, taking money from them. They are
turning them into for-profit institutions to make money, not to teach people anything but to make
money and so on. Because just like the slave master, it's dangerous to have a population that is
really educated. That's dangerous. If you have a population that's really educated you advance
democracy. You cannot have a democracy with an ignorant population. The more educated the
population is, the more advanced democracy becomes in that particular society. It's not to the
advantage of the 1% of this population, which owns 85% of the wealth in this country, to have
people as smart as they are, as knowledgeable as they are, as skilled as they are ,any more
than the slave master wanted his slaves walking around with a college degree. He would have
no slaves. Yes. All the slaves had a high school education. You know he couldn't. It was
impossible and so education is a liberating force. It's a necessity for a democratic institution or a
democratic country. It must have an educated population. The cradle of democracy, the Greek.
They were not ignorant people. There was a form of education, in that particular culture, and so
education is also for those who don't like it and those who want to control the others. It's a
dangerous thing to have people educated. When you're educated, you're just not the same
anymore.
When I left Memphis, Tennessee to go to college, down at Arkansas State College, 165 miles
away across the river in Arkansas, I left and went away to school out of state because I realized
I could never be different from the people in my neighborhood if I had the same skills and the
same education as they had. And most of them had very little in my neighborhood. And when I
came back, there were people saying well you talk different, you're acting different, you dress
different, you don't act like us. And I said that's because I'm educated now. You know, I want a
way to get better educated, so that I could be different. So educated people are supposed to be
different. They're supposed to speak different, write different, think different, dress different, act
different. That's an educated person. We all can act in common, but that you know the genius of
�human society are its most educated persons. And if you look for revolving and evolving human
society, there's nobody who has been uneducated in modern history who's led a revolution. So
you know Mr. Castro down in Cuba, had a PhD and a law degree. Lenin and you know all those
guys that led the revolutions in Russia, they were doctorates and law degrees. Mao Zedong
college educated person in China. And so we go all over the world and it is that segment of
society that helps to promote a more rapid progression of human society that bring about the
changes. Yes some people invent things, but most people who are inventors are pretty
educated people. Look at all of them going back in industrial America, you know, history they
were pretty educated people. We know things that other people don't know and if we don't
know, we know how to learn and that's what an educated person for most is. He is a person
who knows how to learn and a good teacher is a teacher who knows how to teach his students
how to learn. And once a person learns something they can learn to do anything because they
know how to study, they know how to research stuff or read stuff and so on. That's the key, is
the gaining of the skill of how do you learn and so education it's uplifting.
If it had not been for those schools, the freedmen schools, 800 of them after emancipation
cropped up to teach the former slave how to read and write. Once he can read and write he can
learn for himself, he can go get books, you know, we teach them how to learn and that has been
the most liberating force for that 4.5 million slaves former slaves. And now, today, they're 43
million descendants that live in the United States. Education has been the liberating force of
that. And so it's very important in our human society. But even if you look at other species, and I
was looking at a show the other day, all species have an education system, you know, they
teach their young how to, what, survive. They teach them the necessary skills they need to get
to the next generation and that's what we do, you know. So even the other species, they can't
survive without educating their young, you know, they just can't do it. It can't happen, you know.
They have to teach them, even if it's a whale, you know, she's got to teach that baby, well what
are the skills that he or she needs to survive in that broad big ocean. And so education is simply
a liberating force. It is a necessary force. You know, for us, species on this earth but more so
importantly for the human species, us.
They put these guys with New England nests and New Englanders reservoir were foremost for
starting education in the United States they started the first college. Harvard in 1630. And in the
South it was the opposite because slaveholders didn't promote schools. First they didn't want
the slaves to read and write. They didn't want the white workers who were the managers of their
plantations to be too educated. And they of course didn't want the white masses to have access
to education. They could afford and they did send their children to military academies. They sent
them to you know have private classes for them, they had tutors for them, they even sent them
north to go to school. They sent them to European universities to go to school. One of the
problems with the Confederacy is that you have some officers who were put into the
Confederate Army in 1861 because they were volunteers and like Nathan Bedford Forrest they
could afford to raise a regiment or company, but they couldn't read and write. These other uppity
Confederate officers with their fancy uniforms could read and write they had been to school,
some of them had been to college. If you noticed the top generals back then they had been to
�the Academy, you know, to be trained as military officers and that's why they treated Nathan
before Florence and those guys the way they did. You know, they gave them assignments that
didn't make no sense that kept them out of the way, you know, raiding places, tearing up
railroads and raiding contraband camps and stuff like that. As one new book says, if Jefferson
Davis, who was just as snobbish as his set of generals, had used a Confederate cavalry
effectively he may have been able to negotiate his way out of the Civil War. Because they had a
hundred thousand cavalry men, you know, people on horses and so on, and the Confederate
force. But they never used them as an effective force. They never used them at Shiloh, they
never used them at Fort Donelson and never use them at Fredericksburg. And so they never
used those guys, so as a result education made a difference because the Democrats were on
this side, Republicans were on this side, they were the ones who passed the public school they
call it a common school law in 1867. That was a Republican legislature that passed a common
school law that started public schools in Tennessee in 1867. So yeah it made a difference you
know. Between the Democrats coming into power, they intended on even if they have to hold all
Tennesseans down, not getting education, you know, to Black's just as they had been doing
during that time.
But you know remember now, the parties we are talking about today are the flip-flop, you know.
Let’s call the Democrats of today, the Republicans of a hundred and fifty years ago. And the
Republicans of today are the Democrats, you know of Jim Crow times. You know they're two
different profiles of those parties, you know, today. And the Republicans today are more anti
educational, anti intellectual than the Democrats because the Democrats today, the only way
they survive is by the inclusion of minorities, women, Blacks, brown, yellow people and so on
and working-class people and middle class people were trying to move up and so they've been
pretty Pro education since they flip-flop, since 1948. And so if you look at the federal Higher
Education Act it was passed under Democrats. Lyndon Johnson you know, in 1965. You look at
all of those the early ones in the 40s, under Harry S Truman, Democrats you know. So they're a
flip-flop today. But they were pretty, if you had to divide them between the intellectual party in
the anti intellectual party in 1870 it would be that it would be the Democrats as the anti
intellectual party. As historian Richard Hofstadter says in his book the “History of
Anti-intellectualism in American Life”, not just Tennessee but in many places across the states,
there's a grain of intellectualism where people don't want to be intellectualized. And the wealthy
certainly don't want the general population to be intellectualized, because if you intellectualize
then you value learning, you hunger for learning, you get smarter than the boss, you know and
the boss doesn't want you getting smarter. Instead of him owning eighty percent of all the
wealth, you'll own 80 percent of all the wealth. It'll be the other way around. And slave owners
only made up fifteen percent of the families in the state of Tennessee owned slaves. Eighty-five
percent of the people in Tennessee did not and could not afford to own a single slave. But that
fifteen percent of the families in the book I'm writing now, I called them the “Slavetocracy”, the
slaveholding class, that fifteen percent of Tennesseans own 57 percent of the best land in the
state of Tennessee. If we overlay that up today 2014, say what percentage of the families in
Tennessee own the construction companies especially, highway construction comes it's only
five six percent, if we overlaid Antebellum times with 21st century Tennessee, it would look
�about the same. It would look about the same, in terms of the malproportion of wealth. Because
it’s still malproportioned, between those who have and most of us.
I have not, although we think we got a lot. We got a car, we got a house and so on, but our
country is still, since 1607 filthy rich. The resources of this country are unbelievable. Everybody
outside understands that, but us. It is unbelievable but the way that we divided up then and now
is kind of shameful you know and history proves that so you know it's a very complex story you
know, when you get in talking about education and economics and so on. Because that's the
key, you know. I mean, studies show the higher your education the more the income. The
Republicans were more Pro education than the Democratic party. Again keep in mind the
Democratic Party was born as a result of Andrew Jackson becoming president in 1828. And the
Democratic Party is the party of the masses, you know. All these people are being left out of the
prosperity of the country. The common man as Jacksonians called it. They want to be included.
We want land, we want, well, we want slaves, you know. We want the same things, you know,
as the wealthy people. And so the Democratic Party became very powerful party but necessarily
also a pro-slavery party and anti-education, you know. People thought and still think, you know,
these boneheads that are educated are good-for-nothing, you know. That education ain't good
for nothing. We need to put them out there and let them grow some crops, you know, and pick
some cotton or something. But education ruins a man and that's what many people said back in
that day and time. That education really was the ruination of many people.
So the Republicans, what did they do in 1862 when the Democrats were out of power and the
Confederates were in control of the southern states? one of the most important acts they
passed that still affects us today was the 1862 Morrill Land Grant Act. And that act set aside
land, public land, federal land that would be turned over to the states and the states can sell that
land to set up their first public college. That's why there's a University of Michigan, that's why
there's Ohio State, that's why there is the University of Kansas. Every state has a land-grant
institution today. Auburn is a land grant in Alabama, Auburn University is a land-grant.
University of Mississippi is the land-grant. And in the southern states, because of segregation
beginning in 1891, they put an amendment on the Morrill Land Grant Act, you cannot cut out
people from those land-grant institutions, you either mustn't let them come to you know
Michigan State or Illinois State or you can create a separate institution for, and all of the
southern states they created separate institutions. So there you find two land-grant colleges;
Auburn University, Alabama State University, the Black one. In Tennessee its University of
Tennessee. Tennessee A&I is a Black land-grant. Mississippi University of Mississippi, Jackson
State University is the Black one. Go through every one of them. And every southern state that
has a land-grant Institute, has two land grant institutions. But that was because of the
Republicans and why?
The Republican Party when it was formed in 1854 out of anger against the Kansas-Nebraska
Act ,which said you can now bring slaves into Nebraska or Kansas or any new territory as long
as the people in that area, popular sovereignty, voted in their state constitution to allow slavery.
They are angry. So all these guys came together and formed a new party the Republican Party
�in 1854. 1854, Lincoln is so angry he comes back into politics in Illinois where he was so
disgusted with Congress as a congressman he left politics and went back into law. But they
passed this God forbidden Kansas-Nebraska Act and the Free Soil Party, they joined the
Republican Party. And the Free Soilers are mostly New Englanders. They don't want any slave
masters coming into the new territory, because they think they are retrogressive. They kept
them out of Ohio, the Northwest Territory. They didn't want southerners moving into Illinois they
didn't want them moving into Wisconsin or Michigan, because they thought they were
educationally retrogressive when they passed the northwest order.
�
Dublin Core
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Title
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Swift Memorial Institute
Subject
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Tennessee; African Americans--Appalachian Region; African Americans--Southern States; African American heritage; African American Education--Hawkins County--Rogersville; Education--Historically Black Colleges and Universities; African American--Oral Histories--Segregation; HBCU--Swift Memorial Institute
Description
An account of the resource
Materials Associated with the late HBCU (Historically Black College and University), primary and high school, Swift Memorial Institute that operated in Rogersville, Tennessee from 1883 to 1954.
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Black in Appalachia
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Black in Appalachia
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United States--Tennessee--Hawkins County--Rogersville
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University of Tennessee, Swift Museum, William Isom II
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Bobby Lovett
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Tennessee; African Americans--Appalachian Region; African Americans--Southern States; African American heritage; African American Education--Hawkins County--Rogersville; Education--Historically Black Colleges and Universities; African American--Oral Histories--Segregation; HBCU--Swift Memorial Institute
Description
An account of the resource
Interview with Bobby Lovett about the comprehensive history of Black education in Tennessee and the US South. From the Civil War through Reconstruction, Jim Crow to today, Dr. Lovett covers the politics and social movements that led to the development of Rogersville, Tennessee's Swift Memorial Institute and other HBCU's (Historically Black Colleges and Universities). Interview was recorded at the Downtown Branch, Nashville Public Library, Nashville, Tennessee.
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Black in Appalachia
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Bobby Lovett
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Black in Appalachia
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2014
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William Isom II, Amira Sakalla & Wilson Library, University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill
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Items can be used for private reflection and research, and not for commercial purposes.
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Text
Lester Lamon
Knoxville, Tennessee
2013
My name is Lester Lamon and I'm a native of Maryville and grew up in East Tennessee. Well,
the Swift story, that I know, is the early part of the story. I don't know a lot about its founding, but
I know the context from which it came and the person who was the founder and the original
head I believe, perhaps principal, was his title, was a man named William Henderson Franklin.
And Franklin was the first official Black graduate of Maryville college when Maryville College
was reopened after the Civil War.
The college was destroyed in the war and while it had been founded in 1819, it reopened on a
shoestring. Its facilities were gutted by the Union and Confederate troops that had occupied the
area. Its students had all disappeared. There were a couple of its former professors who were
around and especially one of them professor Lamar was very anxious to reestablish this
college. But the problem was, the college didn’t have any money. And so he was looking for
funds. There was a Presbyterian school. He was looking for funds from within the Presbyterian
Church, from large philanthropists. Remember in the late 19th century, America was
industrializing and there was a wealthy class that was emerging and a number of these had
strong Presbyterian backgrounds. And Lamar was looking for them for support, but he also
realized that there was the potential for money from the federal government during
Reconstruction.
No one was clear exactly what reconstruction meant, not just in East Tennessee or Tennessee.
No one clearly understood what that term meant, as it would apply to the states after the war
itself was over. And so, with federal involvement in the South, Russell Lamar realized that
there's a possibility of getting federal help and the primary source of federal investment or
expenditure in the South after the war was over, during Reconstruction, was something called
the Freedmen's Bureau. The Freedmen's Bureau, headed by a former Union general named
general O.O. Howard. Howard had actually spent a good bit of time in East Tennessee, by
bringing his troops to the aid of General Burnside in the siege of Knoxville. And so he was quite
familiar with East Tennessee and especially with Blount County. His headquarters at one point
had been in the Southern part of Blount County. So Lamar made contact with him and the
money that Howard had and the interest that Howard had, through the Freedmen's Bureau was
for the education of the former slaves. So if Maryville College was going to receive any federal
money from the Freedmen's Bureau it would have to be with the promise of educating the
former slaves. Now the Freedmen or our Black citizens, new Black citizens.
Well, Maryville had an interesting history prior to the Civil War. I won't say it was abolitionist, but
it had a strong anti-slavery background. There had been former slaves that had been educated
there with whites, not graduating with degrees, but they'd been educated there as Presbyterian
ministers and some of them had gone on to do missionary work. I think of George Erskine and a
number of others who had gone on to do missionary work for the Presbyterian Church, so it had
an interesting, what we would consider for its time, liberal attitude toward race. Paternalistic, not
egalitarian, but open to the education of Blacks as well as whites particularly within the context
of the Christian ministry. When Maryville opened after the Civil War, during Reconstruction, it I
think probably, professor Lamar and the others that that were responsible for it, just assumed
that the end of the war and the abolition of slavery meant that things would be different. It wasn't
clear how different they would be or in what ways they would be different, but they would be
�different. And that these former slaves, now freedmen, soon-to-be citizens should be educated.
Should have the opportunity for education, as well as whites and if the end of slavery was going
to mean truly reconstructing Southern society then the potential to have meaningful interracial
reconstruction was there and the people at Maryville college were willing to do it.
And one of the first students to come when marival reopened its doors was William Henderson
Franklin, a Black man. I frankly don't know his early history, until he became a student. And
when he became a student there, he was obviously a very bright individual and he participated
in the full life of Maryville College. He did not have to live in a segregated environment. He didn't
have to sit in a separate place in the room. He joined the clubs and societies and I think there
was something called the “Reckless Baseball Team” that he participated in. And so he was an
active, and though he undoubtedly did would run into prejudice and would run into some
discrimination, there was nothing official on the college’s part. And so Franklin stayed at
Maryville College until he graduated. He was the first Black student to receive a baccalaureate
degree at Maryville College. And he went on into the Presbyterian ministry. And he took that
commitment to the ministry and to education with him in the founding of Swift. What was, I
believe, Swift Memorial Institute at the time.
That became his mission to provide education and support to African American children.
Because what he could see around him, was that Tennessee was not rising to that
responsibility, in terms of public education. Public education was anemic, I think we would say,
throughout the state. But if you have limited resources and limited commitment and you also
have discrimination, then the Black public schools are going to be even more anemic. There will
be fewer of them, shorter school terms, less prepared teachers and so what Franklin was
seeking to do ,as I understand it, was as a Black man within the Presbyterian Church to take
that responsibility to provide those kinds of resources so that the freedmen the children of
freedmen who attended that institution would be able to have access to a life based on
education and support
Now, Franklin continued to have a strong relationship to Maryville College, even sitting on the
Maryland College Board of Directors in the late 1890’s. He received an honorary Doctorate from
Maryville College, interestingly right before Maryville College had to refuse to accept any more
Black students. It was almost like the faculty at Maryville College were signing off on this period
of their development. They didn't choose to do this. The Tennessee legislature in 1901 passed a
law saying that there should be no co-education of the races in the state of Tennessee private
or public schools. The public schools had been that way ever since the new constitution of
Tennessee was written during Reconstruction. But private schools like Maryville College could
do that. And some of the places like Fisk University and others white students might be
educated with Black students there. But at any rate Maryville had to stop their practice and at
the time that they did it's almost like they were saying to Franklin you are sort of the icing on that
the cake of that period. And we are now having to close that off and we're giving you an
honorary Doctorate. And the process for your outstanding work and the fact that you represent
our most outstanding Black graduate. Although they had several other outstanding Black
graduates, as well. One of which became a bishop of the AME Zion Church, for example. A man
named Paris Wallace.
Well at any rate, when Maryville had to no longer educate Blacks, you can see it presented an
ethical, if not a legal problem because they had accepted federal dollars during Reconstruction
on the grounds that they would educate African Americans too. Now they could no longer do
�that. Were they going to keep those dollars in their endowment? Perhaps they could have
gotten away with it, but they did not ethically feel that that was the thing to do, since they could
no longer fulfill the promise that they made when they received those dollars. And so when the
new policy came into effect, the Board of Directors voted to give twenty five thousand dollars,
which was one quarter of their entire endowment. Tiny endowment. They ended up giving that
twenty five thousand dollars to Swift Memorial Institute. Because of the work that they were
doing to educate Blacks there and undoubtedly did it because of the connection with William
Henderson Franklin.
Throughout the South in the years before the Civil War, when the most common experience for
African Americans was slavery, there were almost no formal opportunities for education.
Education that slaves received or if they were freed, they received from private sources. And the
kind of education that we talked about or have talked about with regard to Maryville College,
they were informally students, Black/African-Americans were students there. They were often
educated by, if they had a master or a patron in the community, they might receive education,
but eventually it became illegal to educate slaves because there was the concern that if the
slave was able to read he or she would be able to read anti-slavery literature. Because the
abolitionists in the North were indeed spending a lot of time and effort to promote opposition to
slavery in the South and there were any number of cases in Tennessee, as well as elsewhere in
the South, where these abolitionists missionaries or publicist would be arrested for handing out
anti-slavery literature. And so to keep slaves, the idea was to keep a slave ignorant of his or her
condition, then they're more likely to be a pacified slave. But if they knew, Frederick Douglass
speaks of this in his autobiography many times and I'm sure many elementary and high school
students have read or are familiar with Frederick Douglass's autobiography. But he talks in there
about the revelation when he learned to read that this was the thing that he would never,
couldn’t be a slave again once he realized he had the capacity to know what was outside. His
freedom could never be denied him again. And he of course from that time on became a
dissatisfied slave, made the effort to escape on many occasions. That's the very thing that
legislators and others in the South would, in Tennessee and elsewhere in the South, would want
to try to prevent happening. And so educational opportunities were incredibly limited before the
Civil War.
I mean first of all, there was very little public education in the South of any kind. And so it was
private, but it became a crime to educate Blacks eventually. And so the opportunities would
have been, they would have been ones that would have been under the table, covert and very
difficult to obtain. Reconstruction, what did it mean? It wasn't clear what reconstruction meant to
Abraham Lincoln or Andrew Johnson or the radicals in Congress. It was clear that the South
wanted as little change as possible, so the real question out there was, “How much will and how
much determination would there be to change the racial makeup of the South after the end of
slavery? And for maybe ten years, the North looked like it was going to impose some significant
change on the South. You have the 13th amendment, which was passed in 1865 which
abolished slavery. There shall no longer be slavery in the United States. You have the 14th
amendment which established civil rights for the former slaves. You had the 15th amendment
which provided the right to vote for the former slaves.
Then the question is, would we enforce those? And it's not at all clear that there was a will or the
determination in the north to enforce them. I think the people in the South, the people at
Maryville College, they didn't know what it meant. So they were willing to take a chance. Where
could they get funds to start their college? They were willing to say, alright this is a meaningful
reconstruction and we'll change it. Most people in the South didn't want to do that. They wanted
�to resist it and they did resist it. You find many instances in which the slave owners don't even
free their slaves until finally the federal troops forced them to free their slaves. They certainly
don't provide equal civil rights, because you have the imposition of Black Codes throughout the
South and especially you see it in Tennessee.
The right to vote. There are all kinds of ways in which Blacks were denied the right to vote, but
these were informal and legally they couldn't do that. The question is: What would that mean in
practice? And over time, the late 1870s, 1880s, 1890s it became clear that the North was
through with reconstruction. It wasn't going to enforce it and the Supreme Court backed that up
In 1881, the Supreme Court said individuals can discriminate on the basis of race. Only states
can't discriminate on the basis of race. In those cases of 1881, then so, private individuals
could. Then we get the famous Plessy vs. Ferguson decision in the 1890s that says, “Even
states can discriminate as long as it's separate, as long as its equal, it can be separate.” In that
period of 20 years then, the various states in the South, including Tennessee, put in place a
variety of statutes which created, on the one hand we would call it segregation. We've come to
use the word Jim Crow. In other words, it created two separate legal environments for Blacks
and whites. It didn't have to be that way. Reconstruction could have made it different.
Reconstruction didn't make it different. And so the South settled into a biracial society that was
unequal and that was separated by law.
States could do that, as they develop public schools. But what about private individuals or
private organizations which wanted to conduct their activities without discrimination and do it in
a biracial or integrated fashion? Well, there weren't very many of them, but we had one here in
Maryville which was Maryville College. Are you going to allow that exception when you have
said that there can be no co-education of the races in public schools? Are you going to allow
private schools to do that? If you're saying that all society has to be divided, that Blacks can't
ride even in the same railroad car or streetcar and you're going to say that Blacks can't vote.
Blacks can't hold office. Blacks can't eat in the same restaurants. Blacks can't can't use the
same facilities. And you're gonna make public laws about this and public accommodations. Are
you going to allow private individuals on their private property to be exceptions to that? Well
that's what Maryville College was.
And so in 1901, the state legislature passed a law saying that even private organizations could
not provide education to Blacks and whites in the same environment. Now the story as to why
that came about, there was a lot of dissension at Maryville among some, many, of the students.
As this period of Jim Crow began to take place in the 80s and 90s, many of the students in
Maryville didn't like the fact that there were Blacks there. That was bumping up against the trend
in race relations in the South. And so they didn't want Blacks like William Henderson Franklin
who had participated in social and literary clubs and the baseball team. They didn't want Blacks
participating in those, in those organizations at the college. If they were going to be there they
didn't want to associate with them in that way. Even in Maryville, the minister of the largest
Presbyterian Church began to argue that this is an inappropriate thing at a Presbyterian school
in the South. One of the leading figures at the college and a graduate of the college, who
happened to have been in the legislature, probably a pretty powerful politician, was opposed to
them continuing to educate Blacks and whites. The law itself was known as the Murphy law it
was introduced by, I believe, a state senator from Knoxville. But there was a great deal of
division about whether this should continue within college and even within the city of Maryville.
And so that was sort of the context at which this law was introduced at the behest of these
dissenters. And it was forced upon the faculty and administration of the college.
�With the end of the Civil War and the freeing of those who had been slaves, who now became
freed men and women and their children became free, one of the biggest handicaps in being
able to succeed as a free person and a citizen was the lack of education. If you did not have the
ability to read and write and understand contracts and understand the things in an average
person's life that involve reading and knowledge, then you're always going to be at the bottom of
the heap. You're going to have difficulty succeeding financially, socially, culturally. And so a
situation in which there is no public schooling, or if there is public schooling it is public schools
for whites only, leaves a small population of residents and citizens without the benefits that
education gives to a successful life. In East Tennessee, you had a small Black population. It had
been extremely important over the years, but it had been small. Tennessee grew from the east
to the west, and so the oldest towns and the oldest communities were in the East. Many of the
citizens, the frontiersman, the Davy Crockett's and Samuel Doakes and others who came over
the mountains brought slaves with them. While some of those slaves moved on or were sold,
others stayed. And so when the war was over you have a small but very established Black
community in East Tennessee.
When you take a hard-pressed community, hard-pressed financially and they are trying to build
schools to pay teachers and particularly if they don't view Blacks and whites as equals in the
first place ,what is their priority going to be? It's going to be to provide white schools first and if
you've got 300 white students living in Hawkins County and 18 Black students living in Hawkins
County, you're not likely to spend your money on those 18 you're going to spend it on those
300. So those 18 ended up fending for themselves and if those people in control those people
who ran the county, didn't really think Blacks were particularly important anyway, then they're
going to be left for decades with either minimal or no education. The only way in which that
problem is likely to be addressed is through private or missionary kinds of organizations.
And it's my understanding that the Swift Memorial Institute was supported by the Presbyterian
Church and it was a private, I think initially, boarding school for Blacks because if you're
scattered out, you can't very well walk 20 miles or 30 miles to school every day. It's a way of
bringing folks together, providing them with not only the education, but also the kind of cultural
support that rural poor Black children would not otherwise have. I think it's amazing honestly
that Swift is still a part of the community. You had many efforts made to start schools. You had,
oftentimes, they were called Yankee missionaries that were coming from the north to come
down to provide education. You had schools started all over the state of Tennessee, all over the
South. And many of them might not last more than one term. Many more of them might not last
more than ten years. By 1900, there weren't very many of them left, that were still going
because they were expensive. And then public education eventually came in and there was
more, if not equal educational opportunities available. So the fact that Swift not only met that
early need, but it continued to meet the need during the period of Jim Crow is quite significant.
I don't know the financial resources, the source of the resources, that allowed Swift to do that
but it is an institution that needs to be cherished. It's not unlike, I think, the situation today is that
for Swift it's not unlike that we think of all the historically Black colleges and universities. When
schools were segregated, the separate Black schools were the only avenue for Blacks to
achieve higher education. And from that we have some of our major leaders around the country
and Supreme Court justices and and industrial leaders and doctors and lawyers and people that
have just been extremely important in our nation's history. Then we come along with the Brown
versus Board of Education decision in 1954 and we're saying that white institutions can now no
�longer discriminate against Black students. And many of those are public institutions like the
University of Tennessee and they're much cheaper than the private institutions are. The private
colleges and many students choose the cheaper route to go and it's made it very hard for these
Black institutions to continue, but they have an unbelievably important historical role and
probably have today still a critical role to play in demonstrating what individuals can do for
themselves when they are denied equal public support. It shouldn't have to come down to that,
but it is a source of both pride and accomplishment and contribution that these institutions such
as Swift continue to make in our society. There not as many of them as there used to be it's
something to be proud of and cherished.
East Tennessee had an abolitionist, more accurate probably, anti-slavery history that is often
overlooked. I think you did have genuine abolitionist people who wanted to abolish the institution
of slavery for a variety of reasons, but mostly these were folks that either for religious reasons
generally either that from Quaker background or to some degree Presbyterian background felt
that slavery was a moral wrong. And it was not only a moral wrong and visited upon the Black
slave but it was undermining the salvation of the white slave owner, as well. And so you had in
northern East Tennessee in Greene, in Washington County, you had a number of active anti
slave societies. Benjamin Lundy comes to mind. John Rankin comes to mind. They published
newspapers and generally agitated against slavery. Now you had a similar but somewhat a
milder version of anti-slavery in and around Maryville, mostly folks associated with Maryville
college. They were also anti-slavery and yet the folks around Maryville were a little more open
to ways of ending slavery rather than just abolishing slavery. Manumission, colonization, there
were other avenues in which they were looking to phase it out. I'm not sure either group, the
abolitionist group that were in Washington and Greene County or the anti-slavery group around
Maryville, would have been racial egalitarians. In other words, that they saw Blacks and whites
as equal, but they did see Blacks as human beings capable of all the rights and privileges and
god-given rights as whites. They agitated pretty strongly in the early, well let's say, the 1820s
and then own up into the early 30s.
The high point of the anti-slavery movement in Tennessee actually occurred in the Tennessee
constitutional convention I believe this was in 1834. There was a big push to bring about a
movement to gradually end slavery constitutionally in that convention. Almost all of the
supporters were from East Tennessee, but at that point the population was skewed toward East
Tennessee and Middle Tennessee anyway because the population hadn't moved as far west at
that time. All right it wasn't a heavy population west of Nashville, at that time and so there was a
fairly close effort to abolish it, but that movement failed in 1834. And when it failed the backlash
began. And the the persecution and the legal prosecution of those who were agitating against
slavery sped up. The end result is that most of those folks in Greene and Washington County
left. John Rankin, for example, went to Ohio. And if you've ever been to Ripley, Ohio there's the
famous John Rankin house sitting up on the hill which was one of the beacons of runaway
slaves. It's there and it's a wonderful monument, testimony. Well that was the John Rankin that
lived, I believe, in Dandridge perhaps. I'm not sure exactly where but somewhere here in East
Tennessee. He left and to do that, a Presbyterian minister the. The folks in Maryville began to
tone down their agitation and they became more, I think what we would call colonizationists.
They were opposed to slavery but they said the social crisis that would occur if you freed the
slaves and they stayed in the South, would because they could not be assimilated they were not
socially equal and all this kind of stuff therefore they would have to be colonized elsewhere. And
it was that part of that colonization movement that created the colony of Liberia and ultimately
the country of Liberia today. And many of the slaves not just from Tennessee but from
�elsewhere through the American Colonization Society, the early residents of Liberia came from
the United States. So you have that kind of anti slave background in East Tennessee, that's
where the primary anti slave movement in Tennessee came from. After 1834 it began to
diminish steadily and became, for reasons of safety and all, it became less safe for whites to
take that opposition position.
Tennessee, as we probably all know from our early elementary school, Tennessee history
began as a part of North Carolina. You know it was across the Appalachians, North Carolina,
the western boundary of North Carolina was unclear when the American Revolution was over.
And so colonists have begun to push their way across the Appalachians. They came down the
Tennessee Valley, the Holston and French Broad river valleys into East Tennessee. Most of
them came from North Carolina. They came from Virginia. They came from Pennsylvania. Many
of them were immigrants. As they came, particularly those from Virginia, many of them brought
slaves with them. Even some of the earliest explorers, the frontiersman, actually had slaves in
their party. But so from the very first people who came in, other than the Native Americans who
were here, there were slaves. In Black America Black Africans at the time were a part of that
experience, but as they were, most of them were slaves and they belonged to some of those
early settlers. And as early settlers came in, they were having to clear the land. If you look
around us in East Tennessee, you've got hills and you've got valleys and you've got lots of trees
you don't have big wide-open flat farms unless you happen to be right along the river
somewhere. And so most of the people had small farms. They didn't need, couldn't afford and
probably had no more than, you know, one or two or maybe three or four slaves that work for
them. And those slaves lived right with the white family that owned them. They worked as hired
hands really even though they were owned. They ate the same food. They slept in the same
environment. They worked with the same animals. They drank from the same streams. These
were early settlers, they just happened to be owned and their labor and activities were directed
by their owners. They weren't free to move about themselves and so in East Tennessee mostly
because of the nature of the terrain, the way in which people made a living. . . the Blacks that
were here lived in small groups. Now you had them down along the Little River and the little
Tennessee River and further South and a little of the Tennessee River. You had some bottom
lands in which large farms or maybe even we might call them plantations developed. And you
might have 2250 slaves there, but that would be very much the exception in East Tennessee.
So the population would have been small. The white population would have been much larger
than the Black population, because most people could not afford or didn't need to have slaves
working for them. They worked their farms themselves or their small businesses or whatever
they developed.
But as you move west, as you move across the Cumberland Plateau, the land flattens out and
when you do that you have the opportunity for crops on a much larger scale. Your corn fields
can be big corn fields. You'll perhaps have the opportunity even to plant cotton. You have iron
deposits and you have coal and you have the opportunity to develop foundries. And you have
navigable rivers with the Cumberland and the Tennessee, so that if you make crops in bulk you
can ship them out. That was always the problem in East Tennessee, because of the shoals and
all in the river, of the Tennessee River. It was hard to use the Tennessee River to ship crops out
and you had to go over the Appalachians. You didn't have roads. It wasn't easy to do, but when
you moved west and you had navigable rivers that would take you out ultimately to the Ohio into
the Mississippi and the Gulf of Mexico, you can grow crops or you can have iron ore and other
things heavy items that you can ship by boat. When you do that, you have the need of more
labor and so this opportunity for easier land to cultivate and the need for labor and a relatively
�small white population meant you had to have some other source of labor. And so slavery was,
in the South the way in which that labour factor of production was often provided when large
gangs of workers were needed. And so, as you moved into East to Middle Tennessee around
Nashville around Franklin, in that area, you are on, even up into Clarksville, if you get to the
northern part of the state, of the middle part of the state, large gangs of slaves could be
profitable. And so you have a larger Black population.
Now you still have a lot of regular contacts between Blacks and whites. And in and around
Nashville, you have a significant free Black population. Oftentimes, those free Blacks were
relatives, they were blood relatives to some of the major white families there as well. And you
had a sizable free Black population in Knoxville - they often had better access to education,
better access to keeping money that they might earn and tended to be a little bit better off than
the rural Black population would be, and that particularly if they were slaves. So in Middle
Tennessee land flattens out, the need for more labor and larger slave populations.
Now you move west of the Tennessee River and you move toward Memphis. And really, you're
in an environment that's not unlike the Mississippi Delta. It's prime cotton land. It develops
almost exclusively in large plantation tracts. You don't have the small subsistence farmer that
you had in East Tennessee that might only need one or two slaves. And in this case you have
large plantations, large farms perhaps hundreds, but perhaps thousands of acres really in which
cotton is the dominant crop. And in this instance, you may have hundreds of slaves working on
individual plantations and there might be, at most, one white family. And that white family might
even be in absentia and it's run by a white overseer. So you, instead of having in East
Tennessee where whites and Blacks sort of lived amongst each other, even if one was slave
and one was owner and the other was, not in Middle Tennessee, you're transitioning to where
you've got a mixture. And then in West Tennessee, you've got slaves living and like you can
take Fayette and Haywood Counties. Haywood County, for example, maybe 70 or 80 % of the
population was enslaved. So that you have a Black experience there is the stereotyped Black
experience that we think about with the slave cabins and the absentee white leaders and the
gang labor and working in the cotton fields. Whereas in Middle Tennessee it's kind of diverse.
There's some of that in the iron foundries and there's even a sizable free Black population in the
urban area of Nashville. And then you get into East Tennessee in which that experience is
pretty rare and it's mostly an inter, not equal. And I want to emphasize that not on an equal
basis, but there's a more intimate interactivity among whites and Blacks in East Tennessee than
you have in West Tennessee.
If no one questions whether Blacks and whites do things together or interact. If no one calls
attention to the fact that one person is white and one person is Black, it generally doesn't matter
to us. It's only when it becomes an issue and the things that make it now and in the past an
issue, so often involve money or politics or someone's self-interest. In the early days of
Tennessee's history it was kind of understood by whites that the Black position in America was
a subordinate position. But as long as that wasn't challenged, people could relate to each other
as individuals. And if you work together in the same fields, if you worked and maybe even ate at
the same table, you got to know each other as individuals. And as long as no one called that
into question you got along okay. But if someone outside or that person that is subordinate
decides that they don't want to remain subordinate, calls it into question, how are you going to
deal with that. And it then becomes the crisis in East Tennessee because of the relatively small
Black population, these issues rarely got called into question. They did sometimes and there
was interracial difficulty when that happened, but let's take Maryville College as the example
�again. If no one called Maryville’s practice of allowing Blacks and whites to attend college
together into question, they would have probably continued it on as it was forever. But because
race relations in the South were being called into question, once slavery was ended.. As long as
it was this understood position that whites were masters and Blacks were slaves, everybody
knew their place. You free the slaves, now nobody knows what the relationship is and what the
new place is.
During Reconstruction we thought we were going to reconstruct what a new society without
slavery would be. Turned out we didn't do very much and it was pretty much left to the people to
sort out for themselves. And the South, including Tennessee, sorted it out based on white
power. The whites had the power; economic power, political power and authority. They had the
majority of the population. They were the ones who had been most discomforted by the abolition
of slavery, so if slavery was illegal and they couldn't have slavery, they had to reinstitute some
kind of superior/subordinate relationship and that was segregation. Segregation based on Jim
Crow laws. Laws that forced it and so if there were going to be folks who didn't behave in this
new superior/inferior structure, they had to be brought into line. Because if they didn't accept it
they were like a chink in the armor. You couldn't count on a new racial relationship if not
everybody adhered to it. And so when you put the laws in effect, you couldn't even allow some
little school like Maryville College with its 15 Black students to continue to do that, because if
they could get by with it then somebody else could get by with it and so you had to pass the
Marshall college law in 1901 to abolish that one chink in your segregation armor.
So I think, those relationships that we're talking about here are ones that depend on race being
called into question. And race was called into question regularly in the South throughout the
1890s in the early part of the 20th century. It was called into question through lynching. It was
called into question through race riots. And it was called into question through legislation. And
the pressure was put on African-Americans to decide how they would respond to an
increasingly oppressive environment. And that would apply to Knoxville in East Tennessee. It
would apply to Hawkins County. It would apply to Maryville, Tennessee. Even though there
weren't many Black people living in those communities, they couldn't be allowed to deviate from
the norm because they would be chinks in the armor of this new racial structure.
It's because in this superior/inferior official set of race relations, Blacks had to define or had to
decide really how they would go. Would they challenge it or would they try to build their own
institutions in that separate world that had been fostered upon them? Well they have a limited
range of areas of that they can control in their lives, but the church is one of those and so you
have some very powerful organized churches and church organizations.
Okay two things: Are you familiar with the Church of God in Christ or the COGC Church founded
in Memphis. It may be, maybe, one of the largest Protestant denominations right now. It's
certainly, they'll operate the largest Black denomination or second largest. It was founded in
Memphis at the beginning of the 20th century. It's a Pentecostal Church. It's you've, probably all
seen the, you know, when Martin Luther King, the night before he was killed he did his
mountaintop speech and he was at Mason Temple in Memphis, that's the headquarters of the
Church of God in Christ. That's where that or that is that congregation came out of a separate
Black Pentecostal movement and it's founded in Tennessee.
The other area that I think is interesting is in Nashville in the early 20th century you had the
publishing boards for all the Black Baptist churches in the country. The National Baptist
�Publishing Board. It was an interesting story there. It's split and so you have two separate
publishing boards. The money that was generated from that business enterprise, I talked about
in the other book the bigger book that you've got. I don't know whether they're still there. I really
don't know whether it's still there or not but it's an interesting story, because the publishing
center of the network of the Baptist's Black Baptist in the country. So you've got the center of
Black Pentecostalism in Memphis and you got the center of Black Baptists which are the two
biggest denominations in the country in Nashville. They come out of this same period of
segregation where Blacks are taking control of what part of the segregated environment they
can control and develop and manage for themselves. Now that's to me that's Black history that's
how it's not necessarily integrated history but it's how they deal with segregation. The Boyd
family of the National publishing board and the Mason family, Masons for (COGC) for Church of
God in Christ and the Boyd's in Nashville with the National Baptist publishing Board. Those are
the two families. They became wealthy, prominent families and used their money for founding
banks and all kinds of things.
Charles Cansler is an interesting man and I wrote an article about him, at one point. His ties to
Knoxville College and his ties to public education in Tennessee at the very beginning of public
education, plus the fact he was he was kind of a mathematical savant. He used to, as an early
kid you know, they'd throw, you know, multiply 1444 by 1999 and he'd immediately tell you what
it was.
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Swift Memorial Institute
Subject
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Tennessee; African Americans--Appalachian Region; African Americans--Southern States; African American heritage; African American Education--Hawkins County--Rogersville; Education--Historically Black Colleges and Universities; African American--Oral Histories--Segregation; HBCU--Swift Memorial Institute
Description
An account of the resource
Materials Associated with the late HBCU (Historically Black College and University), primary and high school, Swift Memorial Institute that operated in Rogersville, Tennessee from 1883 to 1954.
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Black in Appalachia
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Black in Appalachia
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United States--Tennessee--Hawkins County--Rogersville
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University of Tennessee, Swift Museum, William Isom II
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Title
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Lester Lamon
Subject
The topic of the resource
Tennessee; African Americans--Appalachian Region; African Americans--Southern States; African American heritage; African American Education--Hawkins County--Rogersville; Education--Historically Black Colleges and Universities; African American--Oral Histories--Segregation; HBCU--Swift Memorial Institute
Description
An account of the resource
Lester Lamon discusses the history of Black education in East Tennessee and the development of Swift Memorial Institute, then late HBCU (Historically Black College and University) that once operated in Rogersville, Tennessee.
Creator
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Black in Appalachia
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Lester Lamon
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Black in Appalachia
Date
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2013
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William Isom II, Amira Sakalla & Wilson Library, University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill
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William Dennis
Rogersville, Tennessee
2012
I went to Swift, I think it was ’55. But the things that I remember up there was awesome, like May Day
when all the girls would dress up and had they had the steps they would come down to the front, and all
the guys would go, “Ohhh” and look at them. Looking at them, you know, cuz they’re coming down the
steps. You know, do something, maybe pull one of them’s hair or something to make them want to hit
you upside the head. But it was awesome. And the atmosphere was different because see, I had just
come out of a grade school, but this was a grade school here. But yet and still, the way the people acted,
and you found certain girls you’d want to follow and you go, “Yeah man. She’s a beautiful girl.” All that
good stuff.
Looking back on it, it was really an adventure. I wouldn’t trade it because you know, well, I can’t trade it.
But it was awesome. Because the people there, and you know, certain girls were from out of town, and
you got to flirt with them. We had sports. I didn’t play football too well because I was always getting in
the way or doing something wrong. I remember this guy called Richard Bristol. I don’t even know how I
remember him. He was a big ole guy, and he said, every time we’d get down the line to do something…
He gets a handful of dirt and throws it at your eyes, and you close your eyes. You’d say, “I’m gonna stop
him. I’m gonna get a rock.” I had it in my hand, and I hit him upside the head. Blood started flying. Things
like that I remember from when I was there.
The teachers were really essential to the educational part of it. Being an all black school. But yet still, the
foundation that was planted there was a really good foundation that we could endure and keep for
years, but yet, we can build on it. We had a… it wasn’t like the real basic education, but it was kind of
like a foundation that you could walk in through Swift. And it was an awesome situation because I
learned a lot, even though I didn’t put it all in practice, but later on in life it had been part built into me.
“He was kind of quiet. Billy Galbreth did all of the talking.” - Etta Snapp-Fanny
The Fugate guys were pretty loud. All in all, I did have a girlfriend, too.
I really enjoyed it and I’m thinking that this memorial here is a testament to… that people know in the
days they did have a foundation, and its not going to go away. We’re going to see many people that’s
gonna come up through something like this. …. Some educational background and say, “Hey, this did
happen to them, but it didn’t happen to us.” Even though we get in the high tech world right now, we
still can have the foundation [imperceptible].
I remember one time, I got an automobile. [imperceptible] It was an old A-model Ford. it was an 1929
A-model Ford. And you remember the Trammels? Johnny Trammel and all them? We were in that click
then, see. We were driving and he had one, but he called his The Jock, and it was painted red. And we’d
come on campus, you know. Well, behind the school. It had 4 doors , and 1 door handle. We had to
reach around and give the door handle to everybody, in order to get out. And all the guys and gals
wanted to get in that thing. We didn’t have brakes. They weren’t too good on it. What we did was we
took the water hose and wet the wheels down so it would grab when it got ready to stop. So that was a
fun time. I can remember all this, as a part of growing up at the school.
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Swift Memorial Institute
Subject
The topic of the resource
Tennessee; African Americans--Appalachian Region; African Americans--Southern States; African American heritage; African American Education--Hawkins County--Rogersville; Education--Historically Black Colleges and Universities; African American--Oral Histories--Segregation; HBCU--Swift Memorial Institute
Description
An account of the resource
Materials Associated with the late HBCU (Historically Black College and University), primary and high school, Swift Memorial Institute that operated in Rogersville, Tennessee from 1883 to 1954.
Creator
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Black in Appalachia
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Black in Appalachia
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Items can be used for private reflection and research, and not for commercial purposes.
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United States--Tennessee--Hawkins County--Rogersville
Contributor
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University of Tennessee, Swift Museum, William Isom II
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
William Dennis
Subject
The topic of the resource
Tennessee; African Americans--Appalachian Region; African Americans--Southern States; African American heritage; African American Education--Hawkins County--Rogersville; Education--Historically Black Colleges and Universities; African American--Oral Histories--Segregation; HBCU--Swift Memorial Institute
Description
An account of the resource
Interview withWilliam Dennis about his experiences with the May Day Celebrations and associated stories of the late HBCU (Historically Black College & University) once located in Rogersville, Tennessee, Swift Memorial Institute. Interview was recorded at Rogersville City Park during the May Day Celebration.
Creator
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Black in Appalachia
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William Dennis
Publisher
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Black in Appalachia
Date
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2012
Contributor
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William Isom II, Amira Sakalla & Wilson Library, University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill
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Items can be used for private reflection and research, and not for commercial purposes.
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6c7bc51120c4a4734999876b46e24b05
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Sandy Durham
Rogersville, Tennessee
2013
I lived in Rogersville all my life. The memories I have of Swift are all… They’re just part of life. We lived in
an apartment called Hasson Street Apartments just right down the street from here, and when they
would come down from the College to go to the movies, in the summer, we’d all be out on the front
sitting. And we'd talk to them, and they were always just so jovial. You know, one thing I especially
remember… there was never any problem with drugs or alcohol. They were just good clean kids, and we
just enjoyed when they’d come up and down the street. They were always really nice and just friendly,
and that's one of the things I really remember about the kids.
Well, my late husband called the football games for Swift. He and John Bill, another gentleman that has
passed away, but they called the football games. I'd go to a lot of the ball games, and I remember them
singing. When they’d make a touchdown, they’d all sing, “Hidey hidey hidey ho!” I remember the
Maypole dances that they would have, and they’d dress in their white dresses, and they’d do the
Maypole dance.
It was just such an integral part of this community and a good part. Actually, the memories of May Day
are just that, just watching, just watching the Maypole dances. I do remember about the campus and
the buildings. They were always very neat and just very… I don't think I was ever in the College, but you
know, it was just how the grounds were always just really well kept. I don't ever remember any
problems there. I do remember the main building on campus. Well, it was gigantic. I remember that. It
had the big archways, and in fact my husband's – my late husband's – family lived just across the street.
The dorm was next to the place where the house was. They were just street divided them, and so, it was
just a very gigantic building to me at that time. My late husband and my oldest son – the bricks were just
there, they were just there – they went and made several trips, and they cleaned some of the bricks, and
they brought them home. We made a fireplace in our kitchen, and they're made from the bricks from
Swift College. It is a pretty fireplace. Stella has seen it, and it is very pretty.
My daughter has a wall that she's planting – gonna plant flowers beside. That's from the bricks from
Swift College, and also the sign out here… I think I sort of ran Stella down in Walmart one day because I
wanted her to have some of the brick because she didn't really know I had them. I just didn't think to tell
her when I'd seen her, and then I didn't see her for a while. I saw her in Walmart, and I think I just about
ran her down. So, she was… I wanted them to be on display here at the Center. That's just sort of how
all this got started, I think.
The football games were a lot of fun, and everybody was just jovial. I know they had a little tent set up.
All the food was just delicious. So, it was just really exciting, and especially since my late husband called
the games, I usually went to them. It was a lot of fun. I know they had the food… They had delicious
chili. I remember they had delicious chili and hot chocolate. Oh, it was so good.
The race relations in Hawkins County have always been very good. I think the White and the Colored
have always had respect for each other. I think part of it was the kids were educated, and they were
strict. It was just a good blend. we've just always enjoyed each other. I think the thing is we've enjoyed
each other, and the education from Swift did play a big part in that. I remember the town was saddened
�when they knew the College was going to be torn down. One of the guys that I remember coming down,
that would walk down the street from where we lived, he was from New York. He had red hair, and he
could sing like a bird. Oh, he could sound just like a bird, just whistle. We always enjoyed just… we
picked out a few like that which was really good.
If you've never been to Rogersville, it is a laid-back, quiet, quaint, beautiful little town. It's an old town,
and the people here are… I've been told the people that come in, they sort of feel like outsiders. But
that's odd to me because I don't feel that way about people, but it is a quaint little town. When I grew
up, it was just such a safe, little town, and nobody ever bothered anybody else. You didn't lock your
doors. It was just… You could play on the street, be out on the streets. The neighborhoods were all safe,
and we just all played together. It was a very, very good, quaint little… It's an antique town, I think.
The people in Rogersville all knew about Swift College, and we all had a real appreciation for the College.
Of course, growing up, being just a youngster, I really didn't even think about it. The people remember,
that were here and still living, that knew about Swift. Swift was just a big part of the community and the
town. I don't think people now remember the College as we did because it's been gone for a long time,
and you would have to have been alive at that time, I think, to have really appreciated it. And I don't
really think people now really do know that much about it, even the people that live here.
The role of the Museum in reminding the people of the College is… Oh, it is just very necessary. Stella
has done a wonderful job in bringing it all together, and it's just been remarkable. When I walked in, the
first time I saw the mural, it just brought tears to my eyes. It was just like I was there and standing on
the sidewalk, just looking up at it. It was just really, a very, very special thing for me.
Actually, I didn't really have the interaction because I was with the kids because I was a lot younger. We
moved away from the Hasson Street Apartments when I was about 7th or 8th grade, and the College
was still there, I believe, at the time. But they were all older than me, and I didn't actually pass the
College on my way to school. I walked to school, and it was the city school. So, I really didn't, that much,
interact with the individual students because they were college students, and I was just a kid. I was a kid
at once.
I think the College played a very big part. I think the aspects of it today have lived on, and the Center
here has… It makes it alive. It's kept it alive. It's kept its memory alive, and a lot of the people my age
and my race or the Black race has… They're going to pass on. It's just so good that we have the Center
here to keep that memory alive. It's good memories. That's what I want to say. It's all good memories.
It's just good memories for my generation and the generation that's coming up. They need to know that
it's a prideful thing for them because they can have a lot of pride in what was done at the College here,
and we've had a lot of celebrities here, too, in Rogersville. And you know, that's all displayed here, and
so, that's all been a real part.
One of the things which doesn't really – well it does because the kids from the College would be there –
but Saint Mark's Church, that’s where they would attend church. On Sunday morning, if I hadn't gone to
church myself, my mother and I, we had opened the doors and listen to them sing at St. Mark's. It was
just beautiful. Oh, it was just beautiful, and that's a good memory I still have.
They did have the parades in town, and it was an exciting thing to watch the parades and the band. And
they were good strutters. They really had some, good, nice parades, and we always loved watching that.
We always enjoyed that. They would have parades in town, and they had a good band. And they were
�high steppers; they really were, and they were always a lot of fun to watch. We always enjoyed that
tremendously. Loved to go down and watch them.
When they tore down the administrative building, the main building, I believe it was in 1964. After a
while, my late husband and our oldest son David just went and got some of the bricks and cleaned them.
We now have a fireplace in our kitchen – it's just beautiful – out of the brick from Swift College. It is a
point of pride and nostalgia for me to have the brick. It's like part not only of Swift College, but my
childhood and growing up, and it lives in my home today. I point that out to just about everybody that
comes into my house, into our home. It's also a reminder to my children and grandchildren that this is a
part of a College that used to be in our town that has been torn down. Probably different homes in
Rogersville also have a part of Swift in their home.
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Swift Memorial Institute
Subject
The topic of the resource
Tennessee; African Americans--Appalachian Region; African Americans--Southern States; African American heritage; African American Education--Hawkins County--Rogersville; Education--Historically Black Colleges and Universities; African American--Oral Histories--Segregation; HBCU--Swift Memorial Institute
Description
An account of the resource
Materials Associated with the late HBCU (Historically Black College and University), primary and high school, Swift Memorial Institute that operated in Rogersville, Tennessee from 1883 to 1954.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Black in Appalachia
Publisher
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Black in Appalachia
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Items can be used for private reflection and research, and not for commercial purposes.
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United States--Tennessee--Hawkins County--Rogersville
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
University of Tennessee, Swift Museum, William Isom II
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Sandy Durham
Subject
The topic of the resource
Tennessee; African Americans--Appalachian Region; African Americans--Southern States; African American heritage; African American Education--Hawkins County--Rogersville; Education--Historically Black Colleges and Universities; African American--Oral Histories--Segregation; HBCU--Swift Memorial Institute
Description
An account of the resource
Interview with Rogersville Resident, Sandy Durham about her recollections of living in the same neighborhood as Swift Memorial Institute, the late HBCU (Historically Black College & University) once located in Rogersville, Tennessee. Interview was recorded at the Swift Museum in Rogersville, Tennessee.
Creator
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Black in Appalachia
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Sandy Durham
Publisher
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Black in Appalachia
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2012
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
William Isom II, Amira Sakalla & Wilson Library, University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill
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Items can be used for private reflection and research, and not for commercial purposes.
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89c81c7353dd47c45205e83438ad308b
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Lollie Mae McKinney-Surratt
Rogersville, Tennessee
2013
I attended Swift from 1948-49. I only had one year at Swift. My original home is Chesnee, South
Carolina, and I say I cut my teeth on the word “education” because my mother always said she wanted
her children to get an education. She came home one year from visiting my father in Johnson City,
Tennessee, and she said, “Next year when Jaffer gets his bonus, we're going to move to Johnson City.”
Well, I could not understand what the connection was between a boneless and moving to Johnson City
because I was only seven years old. Well, we moved to Johnson City in 1937 – ‘36/‘37 – and I attended
public schools in Johnson City, Douglas Elementary and Langston High School. My mother was still
saying, “I want all my children to have an education,” and of course, in the course of going to school, I
found out the connection between the “boneless” and moving to Johnson City. The word was really
“bonus.” It was not “boneless”. When she came home and said, “We're moving because of Daddy's
bonus,” well, I was just really in the dark. But anyway, that's how we came to Johnson City. There were
seven of us who came to Johnson City, and eventually, there were nine of us, and seven lived. My
brother Ernest went to Langston, and when he met… There were a lot of his professors that were
interested in his going to school, and one of them was, I believe a Robert Hale, and he said, “well, you
can go to Swift College.” The fees were nominal, I mean, at that time, it was only… I don't even know
how much it was a quarter. Well, it was quarters. it wasn't semesters, but anyway, it was something that
we could afford. He worked during all of his high school years, and I did too. So, he was able to come to
Swift, and he finished Swift and went to A&I State, where he graduated. And the year that he
graduated… the year before he graduated from A&I was the year that I was finishing Langston. So, I had
to wait until he felt he got through that year, and then he would send me. But I'll admit I was still a
doubting Thomas. I just didn't see any way that I could go to school. When he finished, and I came home
that year, he said, “Well, I'm gonna send you to Morristown because the rules at Swift are pretty strict,
and you sort of been able to… had been allowed a little more freedom. So, I'm gonna send you to
Morristown.” So, for my freshman year of college, I went to Morristown College, and I was there, and I
was such a homebody. And I thought, “Well, if life is like this at Morristown, it can't be any worse at
Swift, and it will certainly be a little cheaper. And I will be able to be with my brother that year.” I
wanted to be here, where he was, but I didn't want to be in any of his classes because he was a very
hard taskmaster. He was sort of like Miss Dessa. Not that I was going to play around any. And as she said
in those days, we didn’t… Going to college, if you came, it was hardly an option as to whether you were
going to do what you were supposed to do here because you'd either do it, [or] you'd be punished.
You'd be sent home, and the worst of it, in my case, was my grades would be sent to my mother. That, I
definitely did not want, even with him here on the campus. I think I would have probably braved him
here rather than my mother there. So, that wasn't an option.
There was a lot of accountability, and there was a lot of responsibility, especially with going to school.
We were offered education, and for those in my family who wanted to accept it and run with it, well
then, that was a good idea. The others, who didn't, knew that there was not money that could be spent
or somebody to come and just, you know, party for a quarter or a year or something like that. That
wasn't an option. If we were coming to college, we were coming to college to study, and that was it. My
boyfriend, who later became my husband, of course I wouldn't dared to have let him in my room. Not in
those dormitory rooms or anything like that. I heard those stories, but to me, they were stories, and
�that's where I left them. We were in the girls’ dormitory, and I think we were up over the dining hall, is
where I think we were. Of course, every day coming from his classroom, he had to pass by my window.
So, I always made it up to my my room to see him pass by my window. I was telling one of the ladies that
I met, coming to and from the reunion, about that, and she says, “Well I did you one better.” She said, “I
had a brick in my room, and every day when my husband” – oh, well, later – boyfriend came by, she
would let her brick down out of the window to give him a message. So, I thought that was pretty unique.
My duty was to pick up all the serving bowls off the table for each meal. I didn't have to wash them. I
just had to had to collect them. One young man was the mailman, and I think the year that – well,
somebody was here – there was only two men. I don't know if this was my time or not, but all the young
men were in service. There was only like two men in the high school and one in the college or something
like that, but it was because of that. Yeah because of the war.
I was in high school, then, and they had the high school department here. This was junior college. They
had up to 12 grades, up to high school. I don't know what the high school years were. I guess 9 through
12, and then, they had freshmen and sophomore. That was as far as we went because it was a junior
college, and that's how come I happened to stay here. Like, I was one year at Morristown. It was a junior
college, and one year at Swift. It was a junior college. So, I was here for that.
We were fortunate to have a group of people, Presbyterian or Christian or whomever, who were
interested in Black children. Get interested enough in Black children to afford them an education. You
know, there were many colleges, but we couldn't afford to go. I mean, they were all priced out of my
price range or income range or whatever. Swift, and Morristown also, we could attend because you
could do some money, and then you get a work scholarship, or some way was made for you to be able
to attend, whatever your financial circumstances were. That's really the point I like about Swift. Even, I
know Mr. Armstrong had lived in this neighborhood, but I don't know if he worked in it or not. He was
our principal at Langston, and he encouraged people to come to Swift and you know get at least a junior
college education. The way I came… There was a Presbyterian minister I told [that] I wanted to come to
Swift, and he said, “Well, come and teach Bible school.” And I did that in Johnson City and applied, and
that way I networked. That was the way not only me, but other students, were able to come to Swift.
They had a really good, caring attitude. when we were here, we were almost like their children. I mean,
they kept a close eye on us.
The people who… The principal and other educators in the area would encourage us to come to Swift,
and tell us ways to apply and those kinds of things.
We had to get up pretty early because we had to get all of this… you know, ladies and bathing and
dressing and well, people in general maybe… and putting on all this makeup, if that's what you did
because we had to be at breakfast at, I’m gonna say, 7 o'clock or 7:30. There was no such thing as you
coming in there... If breakfast was at 7:00, you were there at 7:00. You had time to eat and do whatever
you had to do, and like I said, I picked up the bowls. So, I had to have some extra time to pick up the
bowls in case I had 8 o'clock class or whatever. So, I would go to class, and we had free periods in
between our classes. I mean, you just have your schedule on Monday/Wednesday/Friday,
Tuesday/Thursday. You did this and that and the other. We had whatever classes we had in the morning,
and I think you could go back to your rooms, if you had time in between. Study or do whatever you
wanted to do. You didn't really have what I call free time at Swift. You had time to go and do whatever it
was you had to do. Lunch was at, I'm gonna say, 12 o'clock, and if you didn't come to the dining hall to
�get your lunch at the time that you were supposed to be there – like 12, not 12:15, not 12:20 –
something like that… We ate our meals on regular schedule, and I just don't know what happened if you
didn't come to meal. I'm almost thinking [that] somebody would think you'd be sick. We didn't miss a lot
of meals. and then, in the evenings, we had… I don't know if anybody else had chores to do or not, but
anyway, we had to study and do whatever we did. At Morristown, we could go to the library, but you
couldn't go to the library at Swift. At five or six or seven o'clock, whatever time we had to be in, we had
to be in at that time. Each class had, what we call, our time off the campus. We could go to the movies. I
guess, if you were high school, you could go maybe once every two weeks. If you were junior college,
you could go maybe twice a week. I don't think so. But anyway, that's the way our days were scheduled.
It was pretty much work, things that we had to do that pertained to school. Sometimes, we had we did
have time in the afternoon. We had a day that we went to shop in town to get our washing powders and
whatever – that kind of time off the campus. Other times, you were in class, going to the library, doing
activities that were here.
We had calling hour on Sundays from 3:00 to 5:00, I think, or 2:00 to 4:00. Well, I'm gonna be real big
and say we had about three hours for calling our home Sunday. Oh, and we had to go to mid-week
prayer service. We had chapel every day. We had fun, and you know, you can find lots of Swift couples.
Like I said, my husband and I were one, and I met him, I guess, that might have been the highlight of…
Anyway, I met him at Swift that one year that I was here, and I stayed and finished two years. I taught
one year, and we were married the next year. There are many Swift couples. My brother taught school,
and he married one of his students. So, I can convince you that there was recreation somewhere.
You wouldn't believe this now, but I really did not do a lot of adjoining because I love to sing, but I was
not in the choir. I was in the dramatic club in high school, but just that one year here, I don't think I was
outstanding in anything. I am seeing the legacy of Swift day by day, almost. I'm a little in awe of it
because I only attended one year here, and I have seen so many of the people who attended Swift, who
just have done many wonderful things. Not being personal, my brother Ernest McKinney, who was here
that I keep talking about, he was the first Black mayor… I mean, his son was the first Black mayor of
Jonesborough. He was the first alderman. He was elected alderman on the day that Martin Luther King
was shot, and they are now naming a building for him in Jonesborough. I mean, just like this building
here that children will be able to come here and tour. You know, the museum and visit and see all these
kinds of things. And, I don't know, everybody brings something almost every year of their
accomplishments. So, I don't think Swift's legacy will ever die.
�
Dublin Core
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Title
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Swift Memorial Institute
Subject
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Tennessee; African Americans--Appalachian Region; African Americans--Southern States; African American heritage; African American Education--Hawkins County--Rogersville; Education--Historically Black Colleges and Universities; African American--Oral Histories--Segregation; HBCU--Swift Memorial Institute
Description
An account of the resource
Materials Associated with the late HBCU (Historically Black College and University), primary and high school, Swift Memorial Institute that operated in Rogersville, Tennessee from 1883 to 1954.
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Black in Appalachia
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Black in Appalachia
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United States--Tennessee--Hawkins County--Rogersville
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University of Tennessee, Swift Museum, William Isom II
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Lollie Mae McKinney-Surratt: Interview #2
Subject
The topic of the resource
Tennessee; African Americans--Appalachian Region; African Americans--Southern States; African American heritage; African American Education--Hawkins County--Rogersville; Education--Historically Black Colleges and Universities; African American--Oral Histories--Segregation; HBCU--Swift Memorial Institute
Description
An account of the resource
Interview with Lollie Mae McKinney-Surratt about her experiences attending the late HBCU (Historically Black College & University) once located in Rogersville, Tennessee, Swift Memorial Institute. Interview was recorded at the Swift Museum in Rogersville, Tennessee.
Creator
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Black in Appalachia
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Lollie Mae McKinney-Surratt
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Black in Appalachia
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2013
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William Isom II, Amira Sakalla & Wilson Library, University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill
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Items can be used for private reflection and research, and not for commercial purposes.
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db4da7cf382146f24652899eeec96dd7
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Text
Lollie Mae McKinney-Surratt
Sevierville, Tennessee
2013
I went to Swift in the year of 1948-49. I’m from Johnson City, Tennessee by way of Chesnee, South
Carolina. My mother was a 6th grade teacher, I mean, a 6th grade student in South Carolina, which was
equivalent to a teacher, and her one dream was to educate her family. So, I kind of cut my teeth on the
word education. I lived in Chesnee for the first eight years of my life, and my father was a World War I
veteran. In 1935, the year that he was promised his bonus, she said that she wanted to move us to
Johnson City where we could get an education, which she did. And it was sort of confusing to me
because what I heard was “boneless,” and I wondered how in heaven’s name I would get from Chesnee
to Johnson City on a boneless because I just did not understand the word “bonus.” But anyway, I did
come to Johnson City, and I attended the school there and later, Langston. And at Langston, there was a
principal, Daniel Armstrong, who had taught at Swift College. He encouraged, and some of the other
teachers there, encouraged my brother to go to Swift College, and so, he did attend. The last two
years… He later attended A&I State; it was A&I NI State College then. His last year there, he says, “If you
wait until I graduate from college, I will send you to college,” and I thought, “Yeah, right.” Anyway, when
he finished, I stayed out my year. Successfully managed to keep my life intact. He did send me to
college, but he sent me to Morristown, and that's where I met, I guess, Dessa. I was at Morristown my
freshman year, and then when I went to Swift my sophomore year, she was there. So, I was thoroughly
confused when I started coming to the Swift College reunions because I knew her, but I couldn't figure
out from where.
When the year that I went to… the year before I went to Swift, there was a minister at the Presbyterian
Church that suggested that I go to do Bible school workshops and other things. That way I would sort of
get a feel for going to college, and I went to a Holiness Church. I didn't go to Presbyterian. We just went
to Bible school everywhere, but when my brother was at Swift, when he came home, they had programs
that the choir came to sing and other activities. The children would always come and eat at our house.
So, I just enjoyed all of those activities. So, that sort of inspired me to – well, that further inspired me –
to go to Swift. I went to Morristown, and I liked Morristown fine. But I thought… Well, I guess I might
have been just wanting some adventure, also. I said, “Well I think I’d just like to go to Swift, too.” So, I
did. My job at Morristown had been, I had to sweep down three flights of stairs, and that wasn't very
hard. When I went to Swift, my job was picking up the bowls from the tables, from the meals. Before I
went to college, I worked for a family of three – going to four – children and a mother and father. So,
when I got to just college and doing this, well then, that was pretty easy compared to working for a
whole family. I didn't have a lot of trouble with my studies. So, it was just a lot of fun. Yeah, my mother
didn't allow much goings-on when we went to school. We went to school to go to school. We didn’t go
to teach the teachers. We didn't go to, you know, razzle the teachers. We just went, and we behaved
ourselves. And even though I was that far away from home, which was about 40 or 50 miles, I could still
feel the slap of her hand, I guess. So, I just sort of attended to my business. I watched the other
adventures and other things, but I pretty much left that alone and stayed with my studies and students.
We had a great time. My thing with Swift was, it was family. Everybody loved everybody and helpe all
the students, as far as I know, helped each other, and the teachers were genuinely interested in the
�students. They weren't just there for salary. If they had been, they’d gone home or stayed home. But
they were interested in our education, and they helped us always as much as they could.
I remember some of the – well, I call them – strange meals that we had, for lack of a better word. And
even though it was a strange meal, it was still one of my favorites. We had salmon cake and served in
biscuit, and gosh I’d never had anything like that before. I’m also a picky eater, as such, but that was just
one thing. Of course, I met the man that I married there, and we ate breakfast every morning. Like I say,
some of the meals was good, but I was used to country cooking and eating what was put before me. I
never… I don't think I ever had it after I left Swift. I enjoyed it there, but that’s not a thing that I cooked
even for my children.
I think another reason that I did not get into many things was because my brother was there, and he was
a teacher. He had the reputation of being very hard on his students. So, I carefully avoided his classes.
All of the students said he was really good. My mother sort of favored the boys in the family, and I kind
of lived in their – I felt I did – lived in their shadow. But in retrospect, I think she sort of held them up as
an example to me so I would try a little harder to do things. It was her way of challenging me to do what
I could do, but I just sort of felt like she favored them. She thought they could conquer the world, and I
was determined to prove that I could at least come for half of it. If they could conquer the whole world, I
could at least conquer a half. So, that was sort of inspirational, but there were lots of people who had
gone to Swift and taught in the schools in Johnson City that I attended. The Cope family was from
Rogersville. William Cope and then there was all of them. There was about 2 or 3 teachers of that family.
And like I say, Mr. Armstrong was my principal all the time that I was in Langston, and that was like… I
went to Langston in the sixth grade. My class was the only class that attended Langston at the sixth. All
the other classes went in the seventh grade. He would go to the pool room and get the boys if they were
cutting classes and go to the movies. They went to movies, and he would get them. And it just had a
great influence on my life and upbringing. So, I thought Swift would be the place to go.
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Swift Memorial Institute
Subject
The topic of the resource
Tennessee; African Americans--Appalachian Region; African Americans--Southern States; African American heritage; African American Education--Hawkins County--Rogersville; Education--Historically Black Colleges and Universities; African American--Oral Histories--Segregation; HBCU--Swift Memorial Institute
Description
An account of the resource
Materials Associated with the late HBCU (Historically Black College and University), primary and high school, Swift Memorial Institute that operated in Rogersville, Tennessee from 1883 to 1954.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Black in Appalachia
Publisher
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Black in Appalachia
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Items can be used for private reflection and research, and not for commercial purposes.
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The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
United States--Tennessee--Hawkins County--Rogersville
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
University of Tennessee, Swift Museum, William Isom II
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Lollie Mae McKinney-Surratt: Interview #1
Subject
The topic of the resource
Tennessee; African Americans--Appalachian Region; African Americans--Southern States; African American heritage; African American Education--Hawkins County--Rogersville; Education--Historically Black Colleges and Universities; African American--Oral Histories--Segregation; Tennessee--Hancock County--Sulphur Hollow; HBCU--Swift Memorial Institute
Description
An account of the resource
Interview with Lollie Mae McKinney-Surratt about her experiences attending Swift Memorial Institute and Langston High School school in Johnson City, Tennessee. Interview was conducted at the "Great Golden Gathering" reunion in Sevierville, Tennessee. The Great Golden Gathering is a reunion of Black schools that were once in Northeast Tennessee and Southwestern Virginia during segregation.
Creator
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Black in Appalachia
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A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Lollie Mae McKinney-Surratt
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Black in Appalachia
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2012
Contributor
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William Isom II, Amira Sakalla & Wilson Library, University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill
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Information about rights held in and over the resource
Items can be used for private reflection and research, and not for commercial purposes.
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16b35c95ef211e6f4d4c9210149654c1
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Imogene Trammel-Fugate
Sevierville, Tennessee
2013
IMOGENE: I went high school and finished in college. So, I was a part of the last class at Swift College. It
was 1955. I had two years of really… I really enjoyed my two years of college. It was a fun time, and we
had several guys from out of town that was in our class. So, we had a lot of fun. It was really good. Then
of course, I had… Several members of my family have been to Swift before I came along, and one sister
that was there. And it was just really enjoyable, and it was a foundation for the rest of my life. I can look
at the schools, the high schools, and all that – that I have attended their graduations and all – is so
different than what we went through because now they can wear any kind of shoes, flip flops or
anything. We had to wear.. The women, ladies, had to wear pumps, and the men had to wear shoes –
nice, shiny shoes – and shirt and tie. Now they come the way they want to. And I just recently went to
my granddaughter's graduation, and just to see the difference in the way they acted at the graduation
and everything, and thinking back to the way we did at Swift, it makes you very thankful. And the
respect that we knew to give people, especially elderly people and all, I mean it's just so different now
than it was, back when we were at Swift. So, as the years go by and the more you hear about Swift, it
makes you very thankful to have been a part of it.
IMOGENE: Having the experience of two years of college right at your hometown, that was a that was a
blessing.
MARY FAE: Well, they [people who went to be in military service] just came back in and fit in because
they were on the football team and basketball team, and they just came back like heroes, as far as we
were concerned. I mean the girls, you know. We just kind of looked up to them.
IMOGENE: I just wish that they hadn’t have been… I wish they had… It would be so nice if it was still
there because I would like for my children to have had the same experience that I had, going to Swift
and being part of it.
MARY FAE: And too, then you think that if it had stayed that, eventually, it would have been a four-year
college. That's what I think.
IMOGENE: I have heard so many Whites, people that are in the community, they're sorry now that they
took it down. Because it would have been a help for both races. I know a lady that I exercise with, she
and her husband, when she came to the Museum and saw the mural on the wall of the School… She had
tears in her eyes because she said, “Oh”… because she remembered it because she grew up in
Rogersville. And then moved away, but recently she has come back. And she saw that, and it just
overwhelmed her.
MARY FAE: It would have been an asset to Rogersville for it to have stayed because I think it would have
continued to have grown. And then you’d have more people coming in, and it would’ve gotten bigger.
IMOGENE: It closed in ‘63 because my sister went there. I think she graduated in ’63 from the high
school.
MARY FAE: They must have torn it down … but you have so many people that just don't take interest in
it because like Nelson Merry, are you familiar with that? I mean it's just sitting there. Nobody is doing
�anything. And it was so strange… I used to teach it a little school down in, you know, well, it was
considered as Sevier County, but it was sort of right at the point. It was a little one-room school, and
they went in there… I don't know when or what. That school is gone. I mean there's nothing there but
just land. They just tore it down. And you know, they should have kept it because one-room schools you
don't see them anymore. I mean they really go down in history, especially with that one because before
I started there, they were having trouble with a little White girl that they wanted to attend. And she
eventually came and started going to school there. That was sort of at the beginning of Integration. But
when I went down in there and saw it gone, I couldn’t believe it.
IMOGENE: We lived out, and we were bussed in. Before we were bussed in, we were cabbed in. Sent a
cab out to bring us into town. It's part of Hawkins County, but it's out. Anyway, when we were in grade
school, we were in between Rogersville and Surgoinsville. So, we could have gone to Surgoinsville, or we
could have gone to Hawkins County. But by the time we were little, we had older brothers that were
already in Hawkins County, and they were driving to there. So, we all, the younger ones, all went to Price
Public. So, we didn’t have to go to Surgoinsville.
MARY FAE: Dandridge. Because well, my mother and father went there, and uncles and cousins and just
about everybody that started out in college went up there. So that’s how. The time come for me, and
they shipped me up there. I stayed on campus. Like if you were dating, and on Sunday was the only time
that you could have a date to come to see you, and we had to go in the chapel. We would have… The
teachers would have to sit out in the hall, and you know how chapels was, like church benches. And
you'd have your little friend on the church bench, and that would be the only way you could talk to him.
I mean, you know, you better not try to kiss or nothing because if you did, they would call you out. I
remember that, and you couldn't come down until they called you. You know, you couldn't be loitering
around in the hall. So, they would call, like, “Mary Fae!” and you would go. And there would be your
date down at the foot of the steps, and you would go in the chapel. About 30 minutes, you might sit in
there and talk to him, and that was on Sunday. So, I had some good times there, real good times. But it
was like a family though. Very strict, which makes you appreciate things down through life for being as
strict as it was. Although we had some that was a little on the wild side, but most of them followed
orders. It was just a good atmosphere.
MARY FAE: And see, like, in Rogersville, the people that live there probably never would have gone to
college if the school hadn't been there because they wouldn't have ventured out anywhere else. But by
being there and being local, and at that time tuition wasn’t that high. You know, you could go very
easily. Plus, the fact, I’m sure, that the County paid something for them to come. So, it has helped a
whole lot of people.
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Swift Memorial Institute
Subject
The topic of the resource
Tennessee; African Americans--Appalachian Region; African Americans--Southern States; African American heritage; African American Education--Hawkins County--Rogersville; Education--Historically Black Colleges and Universities; African American--Oral Histories--Segregation; HBCU--Swift Memorial Institute
Description
An account of the resource
Materials Associated with the late HBCU (Historically Black College and University), primary and high school, Swift Memorial Institute that operated in Rogersville, Tennessee from 1883 to 1954.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Black in Appalachia
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Black in Appalachia
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Items can be used for private reflection and research, and not for commercial purposes.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
United States--Tennessee--Hawkins County--Rogersville
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
University of Tennessee, Swift Museum, William Isom II
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Imogene Trammel-Fugate
Subject
The topic of the resource
Tennessee; African Americans--Appalachian Region; African Americans--Southern States; African American heritage; African American Education--Hawkins County--Rogersville; Education--Historically Black Colleges and Universities; African American--Oral Histories--Segregation; Tennessee--Hancock County--Sulphur Hollow; HBCU--Swift Memorial Institute
Description
An account of the resource
Interview with Imogene Trammel-Fugate about her experiences attending Swift Memorial Institute in Rogersville, Tennessee. Interview was conducted at the "Great Golden Gathering" reunion in Sevierville, Tennessee. The Great Golden Gathering is a reunion of Black schools that were once in Northeast Tennessee and Southwestern Virginia during segregation.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Black in Appalachia
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Imogene Trammel-Fugate
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Black in Appalachia
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2012
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
William Isom II, Amira Sakalla & Wilson Library, University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Items can be used for private reflection and research, and not for commercial purposes.